Idiot during Saturday's minute silence

[crownhill pilgrim]

Well as an ex police officer I fully understand your position and your wish to defend your profession and it's a fair point to say my point was very generalised and perhaps unfair. There would be very many police officers whom I'm sure are doing a difficult honest job. However for Cobi to say one single incident is factually incorrect. The Miners Strike, Hillsborough, Stephen Lawrence murder and then think about how easily we all say all politicians are corrupt when we think about corruption such as the expenses scandel. That is another example of a generalisation, but yet it is commonly done, it will take years for the reputation of the police to recover I'm afraid, much like our politicians.

Here is a question to you, do you accept that the behavior by the South Yorkshie police was beyond the pale in blamming the Liverpool fans soley for Hillsborough?

Agree with you there. Nary a day goes by without some sort of scandal involving the Metropolitan police... who it seems, seem more concerned with infiltrating protest groups and tipping off News International for cash than catching criminals. In this case, a large amount of bad apples has spoilt an even larger barrel.

Anyway. By remembering the Hillsborough dead by no means means we're dishonouring the dead in other disasters. There is room to remember all victims of football tragedies.

 

[djg145]

Well as an ex police officer I fully understand your position and your wish to defend your profession and it's a fair point to say my point was very generalised and perhaps unfair. There would be very many police officers whom I'm sure are doing a difficult honest job. However for Cobi to say one single incident is factually incorrect. The Miners Strike, Hillsborough, Stephen Lawrence murder and then think about how easily we all say all politicians are corrupt when we think about corruption such as the expenses scandel. That is another example of a generalisation, but yet it is commonly done, it will take years for the reputation of the police to recover I'm afraid, much like our politicians.

Here is a question to you, do you accept that the behavior by the South Yorkshie police was beyond the pale in blamming the Liverpool fans soley for Hillsborough?

Agree with you there. Nary a day goes by without some sort of scandal involving the Metropolitan police... who it seems, seem more concerned with infiltrating protest groups and tipping off News International for cash than catching criminals. In this case, a large amount of bad apples has spoilt an even larger barrel.

Anyway. By remembering the Hillsborough dead by no means means we're dishonouring the dead in other disasters. There is room to remember all victims of football tragedies.

Amen

 

[tigertony]

Yep, 100% agreed.

What it DOES prove is that the police involved in that match were bent, and it also confirmed what most of us knew who were around at the time that the police forces at that time treated all football fans as scum (BCFC v Argyle anybody) and it was just a question of time before fatalities would happen.

These days, we can be proud of most of our police officers.

I'd also ask people like Bristol Rich to remember, when you need help (car accident break in etc), who are the FIRST people you call?

Weren't some almost told to be bent ?

 

[Trev501]

Agree with you there. Nary a day goes by without some sort of scandal involving the Metropolitan police... who it seems, seem more concerned with infiltrating protest groups and tipping off News International for cash than catching criminals. In this case, a large amount of bad apples has spoilt an even larger barrel.

Anyway. By remembering the Hillsborough dead by no means means we're dishonouring the dead in other disasters. There is room to remember all victims of football tragedies.

Perhaps this is what we should be doing. An agreed day during the year (preferably not one associated with any particular tragedy) where Clubs can hold a minutes silence in memory of the victims of all tragedies.

 

[kernow19]

I think the only reason Hillsborough has been singled out this year is because it is the 25th anniversary of when it happened. I imagine it will be the case that when the 25th anniversary of the Bradford fire is reached some similar commemorative gesture will be observed at grounds throughout the land.

 

[East End Green]

The 25th anniversary of the Bradford fire was four years ago...

 

[kernow19]

The 25th anniversary of the Bradford fire was four years ago...

It was too. In that case I stand corrected CG. For some reason I thought Bradford occurred after Hillsborough.

 

[Voice of Reason]

A controversial view i know, but a question for Bristol Rich none the less.

Can you explain why far more Liverpool fans attended the game (reports vary from 5000-20000), than their original ticket allocation?

To me, its simple either people were turning up without tickets, or people turning up with forged tickets, that above all else led to far too many people getting into the Leppings Lane End. From that point on the police are a huge way away from being blameless, but it sticks in my throat that people from Liverpool and now the media, feel they cannot highlight this.

Let me put it to you, you've bought a ticket to watch Argyle in the Semi Final of the FA Cup, you are with a large group of people who all have genuine tickets to watch the game, ten minutes before kick off you are denied entry into the ground by a police officer because the ground is full - what do you do - especially when there are several thousand people like you all in the same boat?

Nobody should ever die, going to a football match, its a recreational activity and the police have to take responsibility for poor decision making on the day and those in "senior" positions should hang their heads in shame for much of the what has happened since - but to say ALL Liverpool fans are blameless i feel is wrong, some people went to that game without tickets or knowingly had forged tickets, those people should share some responsibility for the tragedy that unfolded.

 

[dunlop]

Tragedies like this should be remembered with a minutes silence, a minutes applause should be used when you celebrating a persons life.

Football fans are a special breed and all unite on occasions like this.

 

[Bristol Rich]

A controversial view i know, but a question for Bristol Rich none the less.

Can you explain why far more Liverpool fans attended the game (reports vary from 5000-20000), than their original ticket allocation?

To me, its simple either people were turning up without tickets, or people turning up with forged tickets, that above all else led to far too many people getting into the Leppings Lane End. From that point on the police are a huge way away from being blameless, but it sticks in my throat that people from Liverpool and now the media, feel they cannot highlight this.

Let me put it to you, you've bought a ticket to watch Argyle in the Semi Final of the FA Cup, you are with a large group of people who all have genuine tickets to watch the game, ten minutes before kick off you are denied entry into the ground by a police officer because the ground is full - what do you do - especially when there are several thousand people like you all in the same boat?

Nobody should ever die, going to a football match, its a recreational activity and the police have to take responsibility for poor decision making on the day and those in "senior" positions should hang their heads in shame for much of the what has happened since - but to say ALL Liverpool fans are blameless i feel is wrong, some people went to that game without tickets or knowingly had forged tickets, those people should share some responsibility for the tragedy that unfolded.

I think you raise a very good point and I agree with the thrust of your point. My argument is not that fans are totally blameless but that it was a corrupt establishment cover up supported by a dispicable tabloid frenzy. Incidents like this cause us to lose faith in the institutions which are supposed to serve us starting with the government. If we could have had a fair and proper investigation and report at that time we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[Gary Wills]

Football fans are a special breed and all unite on occasions like this.

We're not though are we.
Whether it's the internet geek criticising the chav who apparently can't work his brain hard enough to appreciate players who work hard for the team, or the fan who can no longer afford to attend because of the prawn sandwich brigade, there's no united body of people beyond a same-brand affiliation.
It can only be realisation that the romantic notion dictated by the Sun and Football Focus is utter nonsens,e that leads to such lunatic suggestions that a few inappropriate verbals should lead to a life ban. Ridiculous.

 

[IJN]

You're right Gary.

Mike should have inserted the words 'most sensible' at the start of his post.

That would have covered his intent.

 

[r4h4al]

I dont really think you can blame the police for the tragedy, Im sure they worked really hard and did all they could. The fans are surely more to blame for breaking the law.

 

[SWTT]

I dont really think you can blame the police for the tragedy, Im sure they worked really hard and did all they could. The fans are surely more to blame for breaking the law.

Posts like this highlight why we continue to remember and hold tributes for the victims of the Hillsborough disaster. Justice has not been served for the 96, media coverage at the time was mostly a fabrication that aided the cover up by the establishment. Yes, fans shouldn't have attended the game ticketless, but this was common practice by many fans of many clubs at many matches that went without incident; that doesn't condone it, and it doesn't make those that did it blameless. The Taylor report was a censored account of the event, new evidence (previously hidden/covered up/withheld evidence) has come to light which is why a new inquest was granted.

Justice is required for the 96, then we can move on.

 

[IJN]

I dont really think you can blame the police for the tragedy, Im sure they worked really hard and did all they could. The fans are surely more to blame for breaking the law.

:facepalm:

Oh dear, of course the police caused it, there can be no doubt of that surely?

Even worse, the South Yorkshire police then realised they had and then did their damndest to cover it up.

Come on man, where have you been?