Idiot during Saturday's minute silence

[Vampires11]

This is a good post with great discussion.

The main cause was mismanagement on the day, as far as I can tell from the media. Only those who were there truly know....................but also believe that not all the fans were blameless.
What I do feel is certain is that those who perished definitely were blameless, they all had tickets, and their loss is the real tragedy.

They do have a magnificent memorial already - in that all-seater stadiums were enforced after this event. Every time we see a stadium full of people safely watching a match, this is their memorial.

 

[SWTT]

They do have a magnificent memorial already - in that all-seater stadiums were enforced after this event. Every time we see a stadium full of people safely watching a match, this is their memorial.

Wrong. This was the solution advised after the conclusion of the Taylor report, which I've already highlighted was a manipulated interpretation of the cause for the disaster. Terraces and standing were not to blame or unsafe. Provided the infrastructure is strong and secure and the capacity is properly and efficiently controlled and measured, terracing is just as safe as seating. For modern day examples you need only look to Dortmund's Südtribüne which looks fantastic, generates a truly incredible atmosphere and holds over 24k.

 

[IJN]

Sam, I don't think you can argue with the fact that all seaters are safe, which I feel was V11's post.

The sheer fact that they tend to quell atmosphere really isn't the point is it?

 

[SWTT]

They weren't the cause and so weren't necessary. To assign their enforcement as a tribute to those lost is the wrong legacy to be remembered. Safety, yes. Forced seating, no.

 

[Bristol Rich]

I dont really think you can blame the police for the tragedy, Im sure they worked really hard and did all they could. The fans are surely more to blame for breaking the law.

Are you actually Norman Bettison?

Check out the facts, the police broke the law on multiple occasions following the tragedy. How can you possibly say the police are not to blame in any way when they have admitted to altering 116 of their statements? That’s 116 times the law has been broken straight away.

 

[IJN]

V11's last sentence covers it for me.

Without doubt if Hillsborough was an all seater, there would have been zero deaths.

Saying that, I would also say that without those terrible penned in 'ends' that all of us fans had to endure, there would have been a far, far smaller toll than there was.

The pictures in the papers the day after will remain with all of us that saw them.

 

[Bristol Rich]

V11's last sentence covers it for me.

Without doubt if Hillsborough was an all seater, there would have been zero deaths.

Saying that, I would also say that without those terrible penned in 'ends' that all of us fans had to endure, there would have been a far, far smaller toll than there was.

The pictures in the papers the day after will remain with all of us that saw them.

Indeed they will, I can remember being a young kid watching Argyle at home stood on the spion kop terrace on the day of Hillsborough, although I confess I can't remember the actual game at Home Park that day.

 

[r4h4al]

I dont really think you can blame the police for the tragedy, Im sure they worked really hard and did all they could. The fans are surely more to blame for breaking the law.

Are you actually Norman Bettison?

Check out the facts, the police broke the law on multiple occasions following the tragedy. How can you possibly say the police are not to blame in any way when they have admitted to altering 116 of their statements? That’s 116 times the law has been broken straight away.

Yeah but I mean that sort of thing probably happens a lot I don't know. The tragedy I would say that nobody can be blamed for it.

 

[Bristol Rich]

I dont really think you can blame the police for the tragedy, Im sure they worked really hard and did all they could. The fans are surely more to blame for breaking the law.

Are you actually Norman Bettison?

Check out the facts, the police broke the law on multiple occasions following the tragedy. How can you possibly say the police are not to blame in any way when they have admitted to altering 116 of their statements? That’s 116 times the law has been broken straight away.

Yeah but I mean that sort of thing probably happens a lot I don't know. The tragedy I would say that nobody can be blamed for it.

Police statements are altered a lot??

That's a big statement and implies widespread corruption.

Second point if no one can be blamed for the tragedy why did the authorities alter statements to ensure the fans would be blamed? The blame game started 25 years ago and it's time the truth came out.

I'm sure there is no malice in your statements, they are just incredibly naive

 

[L G]

V11's last sentence covers it for me.

Without doubt if Hillsborough was an all seater, there would have been zero deaths.

Saying that, I would also say that without those terrible penned in 'ends' that all of us fans had to endure, there would have been a far, far smaller toll than there was.

The pictures in the papers the day after will remain with all of us that saw them.

Indeed they will, I can remember being a young kid watching Argyle at home stood on the spion kop terrace on the day of Hillsborough, although I confess I can't remember the actual game at Home Park that day.

Rich, we were at West Brom that day mate.
I remember it well.
Kenny Brown even scored for us!!
The journey home was the quietest that there's probably ever been on the travel club

 

[WBAMark]

Yes, it was at The Hawthorns.

 

[Bristol Rich]

V11's last sentence covers it for me.

Without doubt if Hillsborough was an all seater, there would have been zero deaths.

Saying that, I would also say that without those terrible penned in 'ends' that all of us fans had to endure, there would have been a far, far smaller toll than there was.

The pictures in the papers the day after will remain with all of us that saw them.

Indeed they will, I can remember being a young kid watching Argyle at home stood on the spion kop terrace on the day of Hillsborough, although I confess I can't remember the actual game at Home Park that day.

Rich, we were at West Brom that day mate.
I remember it well.
Kenny Brown even scored for us!!
The journey home was the quietest that there's probably ever been on the travel club

I stand corrected, funny how the mind plays tricks on you. It seems a life time ago now but you used to get a good view from that corner.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

We nearly had our own "Hillsborough" in the FA Cup game against Arsenal at Highbury in 1987. That was scary.

Hundreds and hundreds of Argyle fans kept pouring into that packed away end, it was chaos, made worse by a (I think) late train from Plymouth which brought even more fans.

Can anyone remember being in that away end?

 

[L G]

We nearly had our own "Hillsborough" in the FA Cup game against Arsenal at Highbury in 1987. That was scary.

Hundreds and hundreds of Argyle fans kept pouring into that packed away end, it was chaos, made worse by a (I think) late train from Plymouth which brought even more fans.

Can anyone remember being in that away end?

yes, at work atm, i'll say more later

 

[WBAMark]

This is not Plymouth, but an Albion experience. I once was in the Butler Street Paddock (on the side at the Old Victoria Ground)at Stoke and ended up surging down to the front of the shallow terrace, from the back (a distance of 20 yards or so) without touching the ground. I understood how these crushes could happen and often thought back to that incident at Stoke, which was about 18 months before Hillsborough. The police packed 1,800 of us into a space to hold 1,200. This was typical of the times. People shouted at them to open an empty Paddock to our right, which they did 10 mins in (At Leppings Lane, they couldn't do this as the fences stopped access between pens). There were minor injuries that day too. Incredible to think that could happen these days - but it was the policing and control of fans and not the terraces that were the problem.