Mansfield v Argyle match thread & chatroom

[Balham Green]

I was really hoping for at least a point today. Come on GREENS!

Or maybe the trouble is we were EXPECTING at least a point.... I suppose when results pick up so does your hopes.

I know are in a good league position but I've never been convinced we are one of the top sides because of

1. Unable to come from behind and win games

2. No goals from midfield

3. When 3-5-2 doesn't work, we don't play well with any other formation - mainly due to lack of width and wingers/wide men in the squad

4. We don't play that well away from home. Our general play seems to be scrappy and any decent spells in games are brief.

People were getting carried away about promotion. We are much better than we have been in years because of the better players we have but there are glaring reasons why games like today keeping on occurring!

:yawn:

I'm sure you only come on here when we lose

Not at all, lol. I said last week what a good performance that was.

Yet, I have stated even when we were winning the same concerns and its days like today they unfortunately come to fruition. You understandably don't like what I say. Fair enough. Yet I am a season ticket holder so I say what I see. I do this with players too, like Luke Summerfield. He was never good enough. You may not call it not supporting the team but at the end of the day its better than kidding yourself about what we really have here.

If this team gets automatic promotion at the end of the season then I will hold my hands up and say fair play, I was wrong. Yet Sherdian's get out of jail card currently is the 3-5-2 and when it doesn't work we don't have a plan B. I look at the managers in this league on a lot less resources and think they would love to have the budget Sheridan has and the ability to dip into the loan market as much as he does.I will leave you with one thought. Sheridan stated at the start of the season he wanted a small squad, with a good level of pedigree. He initially recruited this way but as the start of the season unfolded our squad has got bigger. Look at how many loans he has used already. We could see at the start of pre-season we had a huge left-back issue and even now we Kellet, who is an good player, he has a player more suited to an LM position than a LB position which is why 4 at the back is still really not an option. It takes him ages to spot issues. He forever keeps putting players in wrong positions (eg McHugh) at the start of the season. I could go on but I will get that Im a negative fan etc.... when actually I am a fan who cares passionately but just is bemused why all these tactical errors seem to be overlooked so easily.

What makes you say that automatic promotion should be the criteria by which Sheridan should be judged when James Brent said [I think it was at a meeting at Bodmin, not sure] that Argyle were operating on a budget which was between the 7th and 9th biggest in the division?

So you reckon there are 6 teams at least with a bigger budget than us? I doubt it. Pompey, Luton, Shrewsbury, Southend perhaps.... There are teams doing very well with a small budget e.g. Exeter, Wycombe, Burton which puts Sheridan's 'progress' into perspective.

 

[StevePAFC]

I think people need to stop overreacting...it's ONE game, to say there hasn't been any progress this season is absurd.

 

[Cobi Budge.]

The thing that frustrates me is that Mansfield are crap, but it doesn't matter who we play, if we concede first, we will without any doubt lose the game.

 

[StevePAFC]

The thing that frustrates me is that Mansfield are crap, but it doesn't matter who we play, if we concede first, we will without any doubt lose the game.

But it hasn't been very often that we have conceded first, whilst its frustrating there's still reason to be optimistic, the last time we lost we went 8 games unbeaten so who's to say we won't again?

 

[Balham Green]

The thing that frustrates me is that Mansfield are crap, but it doesn't matter who we play, if we concede first, we will without any doubt lose the game.

Burton, Stevenage.....

 

[Balham Green]

I think people need to stop overreacting...it's ONE game, to say there hasn't been any progress this season is absurd.

Progress defensively but not offensively!

 

[Greenskin]

I was really hoping for at least a point today. Come on GREENS!

Or maybe the trouble is we were EXPECTING at least a point.... I suppose when results pick up so does your hopes.

I know are in a good league position but I've never been convinced we are one of the top sides because of

1. Unable to come from behind and win games

2. No goals from midfield

3. When 3-5-2 doesn't work, we don't play well with any other formation - mainly due to lack of width and wingers/wide men in the squad

4. We don't play that well away from home. Our general play seems to be scrappy and any decent spells in games are brief.

People were getting carried away about promotion. We are much better than we have been in years because of the better players we have but there are glaring reasons why games like today keeping on occurring!

:yawn:

I'm sure you only come on here when we lose

Not at all, lol. I said last week what a good performance that was.

Yet, I have stated even when we were winning the same concerns and its days like today they unfortunately come to fruition. You understandably don't like what I say. Fair enough. Yet I am a season ticket holder so I say what I see. I do this with players too, like Luke Summerfield. He was never good enough. You may not call it not supporting the team but at the end of the day its better than kidding yourself about what we really have here.

If this team gets automatic promotion at the end of the season then I will hold my hands up and say fair play, I was wrong. Yet Sherdian's get out of jail card currently is the 3-5-2 and when it doesn't work we don't have a plan B. I look at the managers in this league on a lot less resources and think they would love to have the budget Sheridan has and the ability to dip into the loan market as much as he does.I will leave you with one thought. Sheridan stated at the start of the season he wanted a small squad, with a good level of pedigree. He initially recruited this way but as the start of the season unfolded our squad has got bigger. Look at how many loans he has used already. We could see at the start of pre-season we had a huge left-back issue and even now we Kellet, who is an good player, he has a player more suited to an LM position than a LB position which is why 4 at the back is still really not an option. It takes him ages to spot issues. He forever keeps putting players in wrong positions (eg McHugh) at the start of the season. I could go on but I will get that Im a negative fan etc.... when actually I am a fan who cares passionately but just is bemused why all these tactical errors seem to be overlooked so easily.

What makes you say that automatic promotion should be the criteria by which Sheridan should be judged when James Brent said [I think it was at a meeting at Bodmin, not sure] that Argyle were operating on a budget which was between the 7th and 9th biggest in the division?

So you reckon there are 6 teams at least with a bigger budget that us? I doubt it. Pompey, Luton, Shrewsbury, Southend perhaps.... There are teams doing very well with a small budget e.g. Exeter, Wycombe, Burton which puts Sheridan's 'progress' into perspective.

No, i didn't reckon anything, it was from James Brent himself. Look at Green Rhino's notes of the said meeting;

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=85382&start=39

There may even be 8 teams with a bigger budget than us according to those notes. How do actually know that Wycombe and Burton aren't among them? Haven't a clue myself. For sure their gates are miniscule compared to ours but then so were the attendances of Fleetwood, Crawley etc in recent seasons-size certainly doesn't appear to be everything in this instance.

BTW, why the inverted commas around the word progress? Are you seriously implying that progress hasn't been made under Sheridan? From memory when the chap took over, Argyle were sliding towards the Conference with a squad chock full of players who weren't fit for purpose, which seems to be a bit of a contrast to the current state of play. Maybe you have different ideas as to what constitutes progress but as a punter who dutifully attends HP on a fortnightly basis then i'm damn sure know which version of Argyle I prefer and it ain't the one from January 2013.

 

[GreenSam]

Devil's Advocate: he said this year's was a similar budget.

He did not say the budget was exactly the same and nor did he say that the budgets of the other teams were exactly the same.

It may well be that on average, due to natural variation, the average budget of a League Two side is a bit lower this year. It's still not inconceivable from a fairly vague comment that our budget MAY be in the top four or so of the league.

That said, I too would accept play-offs this season as acceptable.

 

[Weststandstag]

Mansfield fan here

Firstly, superb turn out from approx 520 of you
Secondly, the 60 odd idiots shouldn't have bothered and brought shame on your club

They were looking for trouble in town, got it, got there arses kicked in The Crown & Anchor,
then took their pride bashing out on the Police in the ground - some might say "fair do's" to them for standing their ground with the Police and Stewards but in reality, it was pathetic and so 80's

As for the match, I thought you were half decent, not the best side we've seen here this season but certainly not worst.
I know we've been on a shocking run of late, and with Cox leaving on Friday, I didn't think they'd have had time to work on new tactics but they did and we dominated the game for long spells - probably the last 15 mins you had a good spell.

It's the best we've played in a while and the atmosphere was excellent in and around the club, and the victory over you was sweet revenge for last season when you pulled our pants down in the last minute!

I'm sure you'll be up there in the top 7 come May - good luck for the rest of the season (apart from April 11th) :thumbup:

 

[Balham Green]

Re progress I am comparing to last season. We have scored less goals than this stage then, have scored less than 21st and 22nd placed team and only 4 points above 12th. So nothing to get carried away about.
Fleetwood were heavily financed, and I think Crawley also. Wycombe & Burton aren't. I would be surprised if many teams have the budgets to be able to get the likes of Hartley, Reid and Mellor , let alone make quality loan signings.

 

[Greenskin]

Re progress I am comparing to last season. We have scored less goals than this stage then, have scored less than 21st and 22nd placed team and only 4 points above 12th. So nothing to get carried away about.
Fleetwood were heavily financed, and I think Crawley also. Wycombe & Burton aren't. I would be surprised if many teams have the budgets to be able to get the likes of Hartley, Reid and Mellor , let alone make quality loan signings.

The most important fact of all is that Argyle have 7 more points than they did at the same stage last season and the league position reflects that accordingly,which by anyone's definition must represent progress.I don't get carried away by Argyle [seen too many false dawns over the past 50 years] and for sure things aren't perfect on the pitch-like many other supporters,i regard the lack of goals from midfield as a potential pitfall towards genuine achievement.But to imply that on field matters in general haven't improved on a progressive basis since January 2013 is really taking rationalisation a step too far IMHO.

 

[Greenskin]

Devil's Advocate: he said this year's was a similar budget.

He did not say the budget was exactly the same and nor did he say that the budgets of the other teams were exactly the same.

It may well be that on average, due to natural variation, the average budget of a League Two side is a bit lower this year. It's still not inconceivable from a fairly vague comment that our budget MAY be in the top four or so of the league.

That said, I too would accept play-offs this season as acceptable.

:lol: Good try and well presented,Sam.

 

[Balham Green]

Re progress I am comparing to last season. We have scored less goals than this stage then, have scored less than 21st and 22nd placed team and only 4 points above 12th. So nothing to get carried away about.
Fleetwood were heavily financed, and I think Crawley also. Wycombe & Burton aren't. I would be surprised if many teams have the budgets to be able to get the likes of Hartley, Reid and Mellor , let alone make quality loan signings.

The most important fact of all is that Argyle have 7 more points than they did at the same stage last season and the league position reflects that accordingly,which by anyone's definition must represent progress.I don't get carried away by Argyle [seen too many false dawns over the past 50 years] and for sure things aren't perfect on the pitch-like many other supporters,i regard the lack of goals from midfield as a potential pitfall towards genuine achievement.But to imply that on field matters in general haven't improved on a progressive basis since January 2013 is really taking rationalisation a step too far IMHO.

Who said since January 2013? If we are making such great progress as you imply it makes no sense to demand Brent out as you do.

 

[Argy1e]

Re progress I am comparing to last season. We have scored less goals than this stage then, have scored less than 21st and 22nd placed team and only 4 points above 12th. So nothing to get carried away about.
Fleetwood were heavily financed, and I think Crawley also. Wycombe & Burton aren't. I would be surprised if many teams have the budgets to be able to get the likes of Hartley, Reid and Mellor , let alone make quality loan signings.

Burton have a decent budget.

 

[GreenSam]

Devil's Advocate: he said this year's was a similar budget.

He did not say the budget was exactly the same and nor did he say that the budgets of the other teams were exactly the same.

It may well be that on average, due to natural variation, the average budget of a League Two side is a bit lower this year. It's still not inconceivable from a fairly vague comment that our budget MAY be in the top four or so of the league.

That said, I too would accept play-offs this season as acceptable.

:lol: Good try and well presented,Sam.

It's just a thought. I don't for a moment think that we have the biggest budget in the league and most likely not even top three. I'm just being a bit pedantic with the numbers.

Broadly, I do agree with you that the target ought to be the play-offs and not automatic promotion. 4-7th is a fair target reflecting our budget. 8th-10th is too low. 1st-3rd would be too high (although I'd never say no to overachieving).