"Whole Game Solution" **Updated with Club Statement**.

[HC Green]

It's these two questions which show clearly the line of thinking:

Where do you believe the additional teams should come from?

Where do you believe the additional teams should not come from?

Interesting question to ask football clubs, perhaps Argyle will say Cornwall and not Scotland and also support a regionalised structure.

 

[Bermudian Green]

I tweeted the club to ask if fans will be asked their views. No response.

 

[Quizmike]

This was proposed on 19th May. It requires 65 of the 72 clubs (90%) to agree for it to take place.

It was obvious almost immediately that the proposal would get nowhere near the required votes and so has been quietly swept under the carpet. I guess they are just going through the motions at this point.

ETA Just found this quote from the time when the proposal was announced

Harvey ruled out the possibility of Premier League clubs fielding so-called 'B' teams in the lower divisions. But he believes they could be involved in a revamped Football League Trophy - until recently known as the Johnstone's Paint Trophy.

 

[Quizmike]

Just to add, the only clubs I've seen make a statement about this recently are Accrington and Grimsby (both are against).

The actual vote on the proposal takes place in June 2017

 

[Mark Colling]

This was proposed on 19th May. It requires 65 of the 72 clubs (90%) to agree for it to take place.

It was obvious almost immediately that the proposal would get nowhere near the required votes and so has been quietly swept under the carpet. I guess they are just going through the motions at this point.
ETA Just found this quote from the time when the proposal was announced

Harvey ruled out the possibility of Premier League clubs fielding so-called 'B' teams in the lower divisions. But he believes they could be involved in a revamped Football League Trophy - until recently known as the Johnstone's Paint Trophy.

I wish I shared your confidence; Harvey continues to talk as if Division Five is happening and it's just a case of how - LINK TO VERY RECENT ARTICLE

... and see here; the man is dangerous

The clubs may "decide" but he's the muppet putting the proposals forward

Please don't assume it won't happen; make your views known and #BTeamBoycott

What I fail to understand is why he would want his legacy to be the death of the Football League to help the Premier League.

 

[Positively Green]

So let me get this right.
They are proposing to reduce the amount of teams in each division and having a winter break to reduce the number of games played and ease the congested fixture list. Then they propose introducing a group stage into the EFL Trophy which adds to the number of games played to the initial stage of the competition?

 

[The Doctor]

PG - My 50 years of life so far, especially the last 10 or so years, have taught me over and over that it is a mistake to think that those in charge actually know what they are doing. Maybe I have just been unlucky with the country I live in, the place I live and work and the football team I support!

 

[Doug Deep]

So let me get this right.
They are proposing to reduce the amount of teams in each division and having a winter break to reduce the number of games played and ease the congested fixture list. Then they propose introducing a group stage into the EFL Trophy which adds to the number of games played to the initial stage of the competition?

That appears to be pretty much it PG, yes.

A cynic might say their sly tactics to get a League 3 with B teams established could run something along these lines:

1) Make the initial announcement about consulting on the possibility of a 5th division (League 3) and how it might be filled.

2) Ignore the immediate negative response and let the dust settle for several months.

3) Cobble together a made up on the hoof competition (EFL Trophy) including B teams / U23 / U 21. Declare it's a trial and that if it is a success, we'll keep it, being very careful not to define what constitutes success.

4) Return to the 5th division subject a few months later (now), somehow making it sound like it's a given that it will happen and the only real question left (concerning the formation of a League 3) is how to fill it.

5) Ignore the negative feedback from clubs or fans' groups.

6) Hope that some League clubs run into a spot of fixture congestion through the season, either through good cup runs or a prolonged spell of very bad weather causing postponements, thus providing opportunities to point out the "fixture congestion associated with leagues of 24 teams". Accidentally on purpose fail to acknowledge there could have been any contribution to this from an increased number of EFL Trophy fixtures.

7) Desperately hope that the Bteam/U23s/U21s sides don't figure out quickly enough how to play against League clubs and that it is League 1 and 2 clubs alone which make it to the sharp end of the EFL Trophy. " There, you see, these B teams won't be all conquering in the lower leagues"

8) Declare the EFL Trophy a "success". It will make more revenue (more games = more revenue, on top of the extra dosh put in by the Premier League). Put like that it's not hard to imagine it being defined as a success.

9) As the League Clubs get to the point where they have to vote on the formation (or not) of League 3 and if yes, then how to fill it, point out that B teams didn't walk away with the EFL trophy, it (the EFL Trophy) made more money with B teams in it, and there was fixture congestion which could be alleviated by reducing the lower leagues to 20 or 22 teams. Then dangle a very large carrot in front of the clubs. A carrot such as, for example, if you vote yes to League 3 and yes to B teams in League 3 then the money filtering down to League clubs from the Premier League will double. Maybe even treble. Don't worry too much about whether or not this is actually true. For a lot of cash-strapped clubs that carrot would be very hard to turn down, however against the principle they had previously been.

10) Confident that money will talk loud enough in the end the vote goes ahead. Enough clubs vote in favour. Job done.

A cynic might say all that. In fact I just have!

 

[Biggs]

Winter break
If you ask me we don't have a particularly harsh winter compared to a lot of countries who have such breaks. Football is simply impossible in some countries because of the conditions so a break over the winter makes perfect sense. Over here we don't have that problem so why do we need a break? The Premier League spin doctors will tell you it is to help the national team; a winter break allows the England team to rest and gives players a better chance of success at a major tournament in the summer.

Are we honestly meant to believe that footballers cannot cope with 50 or so football matches over a 10 month period before jetting off to a tournament? These are professional athletes, if they cannot cope with the strains of their sporting calendar then they aren't being prepared properly. Look at tennis players, they play 7 strenuous one-on-one games in a two week period and are still capable of adding multiple doubles tournaments to their fortnight's schedule at Wimbledon, once they've done that they head off to the other side of the world to do it all again somewhere else the following week. There is no excuse for being unfit for a major tournament, if footballers were honestly that under-prepared what would a month's break do for them 6 months prior to the event?

Football is a game of such incredibly fine margins that I do think the winter break would make a considerable difference to the England team.

Look at Harry Kane and Delle Alli at Euro 2016, they were knackered. And footballers cover far more ground than tennis players in a far more multi-dimensional game with more varied demands on mind and body, with a more rigid schedule.

 

[Mark Colling]

Winter break
If you ask me we don't have a particularly harsh winter compared to a lot of countries who have such breaks. Football is simply impossible in some countries because of the conditions so a break over the winter makes perfect sense. Over here we don't have that problem so why do we need a break? The Premier League spin doctors will tell you it is to help the national team; a winter break allows the England team to rest and gives players a better chance of success at a major tournament in the summer.

Are we honestly meant to believe that footballers cannot cope with 50 or so football matches over a 10 month period before jetting off to a tournament? These are professional athletes, if they cannot cope with the strains of their sporting calendar then they aren't being prepared properly. Look at tennis players, they play 7 strenuous one-on-one games in a two week period and are still capable of adding multiple doubles tournaments to their fortnight's schedule at Wimbledon, once they've done that they head off to the other side of the world to do it all again somewhere else the following week. There is no excuse for being unfit for a major tournament, if footballers were honestly that under-prepared what would a month's break do for them 6 months prior to the event?

Football is a game of such incredibly fine margins that I do think the winter break would make a considerable difference to the England team.

Look at Harry Kane and Delle Alli at Euro 2016, they were knackered. And footballers cover far more ground than tennis players in a far more multi-dimensional game with more varied demands on mind and body, with a more rigid schedule.

I agree with you, so reduce the PL by two or even four clubs and let them have a winter break.

A winter break for Division Four is not going to help the England team one iota.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

The recent club statement invited questions and said some questions are never asked of the board of directors, so I've sent the email copied below to the club and a director.
It's a worry that the EFL proposals will be discussed by clubs at meetings as soon as next month.....

Following the recent club statement the directors invited questions for the Fans Forum on 24th September; I have a couple of questions regarding the new proposals from Shaun Harvey, the Chief Executive Officer at the English Football League.

I ask as an individual although my concerns are shared by many fans. The controversial Checkatrade Trophy competition devised by Mr Harvey has already seen fans boycott games with attendances down 20% this season when compared to the first round of games from season 2015-2016.

The letter entitled “Whole Game Solution” from Mr Harvey was sent to all 72 league clubs and asked for their input on a raft of proposed changes.

In the interest of transparency would it be possible to inform the fans how Plymouth Argyle Football Club viewed these proposals and the answers given to Mr Harvey and because the Fans Forum will not take place for another three weeks it might be beneficial to publish the answers from PAFC on the club website in due course?
Also, were the proposals discussed with Argyle supporters before the answers were sent back to the EFL and if so will there will further supporter consultation?

Some of the questions from Mr Harvey appear to concede that certain proposals have already been ratified namely a League 3 and a Winter Break.

The proposals and questions from Mr Harvey are as follows:

Additional teams into the EFL
Where do you believe the additional teams should come from?
Where do you believe the additional teams should not come from?

Regionalisation
Do you think that the EFL should consider regionalisation of the bottom 2 divisions?

Winter Break
Would you prefer that clubs in League 1, League 2 and League 3 played through a Winter Break?

Number of Teams Per Division
It is possible that a fixture schedule can be created for League 1, League 2 and League 3 that could accommodate 22 teams not 20 (by utilising 4 midweek dates). This would see the number of teams in the EFL increase to 86.

Promotion/Relegation
We recognise that Promotion and Relegation to create the new divisions will be a significant factor in the decision making process for clubs. It is our intention to have all the permutations we believe are realistic for the individual club meetings or small group meetings in October/November 2016. We believe that this will be the most effective time to consider this matter.

End.

Hopefully the club will inform the supporters of its intentions regarding the above proposals.

Thank you

 

[SWTT]

Winter break
If you ask me we don't have a particularly harsh winter compared to a lot of countries who have such breaks. Football is simply impossible in some countries because of the conditions so a break over the winter makes perfect sense. Over here we don't have that problem so why do we need a break? The Premier League spin doctors will tell you it is to help the national team; a winter break allows the England team to rest and gives players a better chance of success at a major tournament in the summer.

Are we honestly meant to believe that footballers cannot cope with 50 or so football matches over a 10 month period before jetting off to a tournament? These are professional athletes, if they cannot cope with the strains of their sporting calendar then they aren't being prepared properly. Look at tennis players, they play 7 strenuous one-on-one games in a two week period and are still capable of adding multiple doubles tournaments to their fortnight's schedule at Wimbledon, once they've done that they head off to the other side of the world to do it all again somewhere else the following week. There is no excuse for being unfit for a major tournament, if footballers were honestly that under-prepared what would a month's break do for them 6 months prior to the event?

Football is a game of such incredibly fine margins that I do think the winter break would make a considerable difference to the England team.

Look at Harry Kane and Delle Alli at Euro 2016, they were knackered. And footballers cover far more ground than tennis players in a far more multi-dimensional game with more varied demands on mind and body, with a more rigid schedule.

I agree with you, so reduce the PL by two or even four clubs and let them have a winter break.

A winter break for Division Four is not going to help the England team one iota.

It certainly won't when they treat it the same as preseason and fly around the world to play prestige friendlies like some travelling circus.

 

[Bermudian Green]

It certainly won't when they treat it the same as preseason and fly around the world to play prestige friendlies like some travelling circus.

Too right. The whole idea of the break, so we're told, is to give players time to recover and recharge their batteries. I don't really have a problem with that, the percentage points between performance level for elite athletes is tiny.

Playing friendlies somewhere nice and warm completely destroys the reasoning behind the winter break proposal. Perhaps if a team did travel abroad when they should be resting, they get a huge fine which is then distributed amongst the EFL clubs, with a larger amount being given to club # 92, and reducing proportionally the higher up the league you go.

Thus, if Chelsea play in Bahrain, they get fined £2M, Cambridge get £100k, Huddersfield (!?!) get £10K. Then we'll see if it's for the good of the Premier club's banks balances, or for the good of the national team.

Either way, there's no way the EFL should have a winter break.

 

[Mark Colling]

The view from Pompey - and a really good read

 

[djg145]

So the EFL can predict when we will have our 'winter' can they? If they think winter is for two weeks over the Xmas period, they will be wrong, the harshest part of the winter is usually end of January and February. Will this witer break be flexible, relying on the Met Office predictions?

It is obvious to me and many others that the ONLY reason for a winter break is so that the top teams can get on a plain and fly off to the Far East or America and earn loads of more money from prestige frendlies.

Nothing to do with the players resting - poor lads - all about money!!

None of the proposals are for the supporter or the lower league teams - they are ALL to do with the 'top' teams getting more money!!

I hope Argyle and other teams vote AGAINST this!!!