Metal_Green_Mickey":2muhh5wf said:
I think we would have been interested in taking him on loan, if it was not for all our current loan spaces being full.
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Argyle bid for Janoi Donacien (signs for Fleetwood)
- Thread starter PL2 3DQ
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I think we would have been interested in taking him on loan, if it was not for all our current loan spaces being full.
German Shepherd":dptwx8k1 said:Emeraldinho":dptwx8k1 said:. :iagree:WoodsyGreen":dptwx8k1 said:
Why ? What have they done to you ?
They are a great community football club in a very deprived area. Have Premiership standard training facilities which they let local schools/clubs use for free. They might only have small crowds & seem 'tinpot' but the population of Fleetwood is 26,000 so if they have an attendance of 3,000 it's like Argyle having an attendance of over 30,000 if you take spectators per population.
They're about as inorganic as you can get. If Man City get flak for 'buying' trophies then Fleetwood should be open to a similar level of criticism for 'buying' their place in the league.
Thanks to their owner covering huge debts, they've been able to sign players on salaries the club itself couldn't dream of being able to afford, which drives up wages across the lower leagues and leads to the likes of Bury over-reaching and going out of business.
Their last set of accounts showed that they owed £17m to their owner's companies, up from £12.5m the previous year.
Let me say that again and underline it... £17MILLION. How many season tickets would they have to sell to recoup that?
That the EFL allows clubs to run up debts like that is an absolute farce, particularly in light of what happened to Bury and (nearly) Bolton. If they were serious about safeguarding the future of their clubs and the integrity of their competition then they would link salary caps to organic, football-related turnover (ticket sales, hospitality, merchandise etc).
If Fleetwood managed to sustain their League One status under that kind of sound financial governance then I'd be the first to praise them for it. I suspect, however, that they would sink like a stone back into non-league quicker than you could say "Rushden and Diamonds".
WoodsyGreen":3l6i10pq said:German Shepherd":3l6i10pq said:Emeraldinho":3l6i10pq said:. :iagree:WoodsyGreen":3l6i10pq said:
Why ? What have they done to you ?
They are a great community football club in a very deprived area. Have Premiership standard training facilities which they let local schools/clubs use for free. They might only have small crowds & seem 'tinpot' but the population of Fleetwood is 26,000 so if they have an attendance of 3,000 it's like Argyle having an attendance of over 30,000 if you take spectators per population.
They're about as inorganic as you can get. If Man City get flak for 'buying' trophies then Fleetwood should be open to a similar level of criticism for 'buying' their place in the league.
Thanks to their owner covering huge debts, they've been able to sign players on salaries the club itself couldn't dream of being able to afford, which drives up wages across the lower leagues and leads to the likes of Bury over-reaching and going out of business.
Their last set of accounts showed that they owed £17m to their owner's companies, up from £12.5m the previous year.
Let me say that again and underline it... £17MILLION. How many season tickets would they have to sell to recoup that?
That the EFL allows clubs to run up debts like that is an absolute farce, particularly in light of what happened to Bury and (nearly) Bolton. If they were serious about safeguarding the future of their clubs and the integrity of their competition then they would link salary caps to organic, football-related turnover (ticket sales, hospitality, merchandise etc).
If Fleetwood managed to sustain their League One status under that kind of sound financial governance then I'd be the first to praise them for it. I suspect, however, that they would sink like a stone back into non-league quicker than you could say "Rushden and Diamonds".
So if the Fleetwood’s owner converted the loans to shares as happened at Argyle you think that would be OK?
Also how much of the debt at Fleetwood is from investing in building infrastructure works such as their training facility and how much from underwriting annual revenue losses?
Let me get this right.
Ipswich don 't want to get rid of Donacien, just to get him off their books for this season, because they brought in another player whose wages take them over the salary cap.
Donacien's contract ends in the Summer, but the Club intends to extend his contract for a further twelve months, so they want him for next season which is why they were willing to let him go on loan but would not sell him.
Yes, okay, I think I've got it now.
Ipswich don 't want to get rid of Donacien, just to get him off their books for this season, because they brought in another player whose wages take them over the salary cap.
Donacien's contract ends in the Summer, but the Club intends to extend his contract for a further twelve months, so they want him for next season which is why they were willing to let him go on loan but would not sell him.
Yes, okay, I think I've got it now.
We can't be annoyed at Sunderland for looking down on us, and then look down on Fleetwood in the same way.
Its frustrating, I get it. Especially when you go back perhaps as little as 20 years, and attendances mattered so much more in respect of how much financial punch a club had. To lose out on a player to a club with about a fifth of the attendances and a tenth of the catchment area would be unheard of.
Now, it's so different. I believe some PL clubs came out a few years ago and said how they could quite easily run with attendances of 0, they had so much by way of other income sources. Clubs like Fleetwood, as inorganic as their growth has been and as frustrating it is to go to their small ground and lose, have just as much chance of getting up the championship right now as we do. All part of the past 10 years that has seen the rise of "inorganic growth" clubs and as a result (plus other factors) seen us sadly decline from a top end League 1 club to a mid table League 1 club. Hopefully in the future, we'll reap the benefits of being more "organic" than some others, but right now, it is what it is.
(Obviously in this particular case, Ipswich wanted to loan him rather than sell, hence why he went there. But I'm talking more generally with transfers for players such as Diagouraga).
Its frustrating, I get it. Especially when you go back perhaps as little as 20 years, and attendances mattered so much more in respect of how much financial punch a club had. To lose out on a player to a club with about a fifth of the attendances and a tenth of the catchment area would be unheard of.
Now, it's so different. I believe some PL clubs came out a few years ago and said how they could quite easily run with attendances of 0, they had so much by way of other income sources. Clubs like Fleetwood, as inorganic as their growth has been and as frustrating it is to go to their small ground and lose, have just as much chance of getting up the championship right now as we do. All part of the past 10 years that has seen the rise of "inorganic growth" clubs and as a result (plus other factors) seen us sadly decline from a top end League 1 club to a mid table League 1 club. Hopefully in the future, we'll reap the benefits of being more "organic" than some others, but right now, it is what it is.
(Obviously in this particular case, Ipswich wanted to loan him rather than sell, hence why he went there. But I'm talking more generally with transfers for players such as Diagouraga).
You have a better chance of getting Donald Trump's tax returns than finding exactly how Fleetwood are structured financially because they are effectively a subsidiary of BAS Utilities and a lot of their financial dealings are concealed within their accounts.
They have undoubtedly invested off the pitch on their facilities. They have a near Premiership standard training ground but I think I read somewhere that they had some grant funding, which is why they don't have exclusive use of it.
When it comes to player salaries, the likes of Ched Evans, Paddy Madden and Glen Whelan, not to mention their disgraced former Manager, would be on what might be considered to be Championship wages. Also, they have outbid a number of other clubs on a regular basis to make signings.
I would be amazed if they are not in the top 6 in League 1 in terms of their playing budget.
Not many teams who average less than 4000 at home could sustain that over any period of time without massive subsidies.
Eddie Davies, Dave Whelan, anyone...
They have undoubtedly invested off the pitch on their facilities. They have a near Premiership standard training ground but I think I read somewhere that they had some grant funding, which is why they don't have exclusive use of it.
When it comes to player salaries, the likes of Ched Evans, Paddy Madden and Glen Whelan, not to mention their disgraced former Manager, would be on what might be considered to be Championship wages. Also, they have outbid a number of other clubs on a regular basis to make signings.
I would be amazed if they are not in the top 6 in League 1 in terms of their playing budget.
Not many teams who average less than 4000 at home could sustain that over any period of time without massive subsidies.
Eddie Davies, Dave Whelan, anyone...
- Feb 24, 2007
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Parasite of a club propped up by unsustainable means.
When Mr Pilley has exhausted his finances they deserve the free fall they will encounter.
Fwiw he isn’t that well off so a suggestion it may not be financially viable for too much longer is interesting.
When Mr Pilley has exhausted his finances they deserve the free fall they will encounter.
Fwiw he isn’t that well off so a suggestion it may not be financially viable for too much longer is interesting.
Interesting that Execececeter have signed Sam Stubbs from Fleetwood. Centre half signed for them in Sept 2020 but only played 4 times for The Fishers of Men. :think:
As for Donacien, don't think I'd have him now even if he was given away!! :coat:
(I liked the free transfer from Vietnam joke btw!! :thumbs: Didn't check out who posted it tho' before I started this. )
As for Donacien, don't think I'd have him now even if he was given away!! :coat:
(I liked the free transfer from Vietnam joke btw!! :thumbs: Didn't check out who posted it tho' before I started this. )
It's amazing this sanctimonious loathing of Fleetwood.
How much did Argyle pay for their world class pitch ? £6,000 was it when it should have been circa £750,000, ripping off the company & many other local companies when they went into administration.
How much has Hallett put into Argyle , must be about £20M ? Has he got his money back ?
How much did Argyle pay for their world class pitch ? £6,000 was it when it should have been circa £750,000, ripping off the company & many other local companies when they went into administration.
How much has Hallett put into Argyle , must be about £20M ? Has he got his money back ?
Ultimately, it is unsustainable, somewhere along the line the crash is coming even if it is being subsidised through his company, after all the wage bill must be north of £5 million, probably more, match day income currently zero, not a great deal more in normal circumstances, it's like Christian Bale banging the drums in his garage, just waiting for reality to catch up...(The Big Short)
Pete
Pete
honicknowle_pete":rawat9mk said:
I bet their Annual Accounts are 'qualified' by the club's chartered accountants regarding the sustainability of the business being utterly reliant on the director's loans. The test will be as to what will happen on his demise, unless the club is sold prior to that event. A pack of cards comes to mind.
