Home Park Redevelopment | Page 54 | PASOTI
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Home Park Redevelopment

  • Thread starter Frazer Lloyd-Davies
  • Start date
May 22, 2006
4,448
205
~~~~Rant warning - scroll wheels at the ready~~~~

I'm just about fully peed off with everyone and everything.

Like everyone else, I wanted a nice big shiny stadium. Something that people with beards, adenoidal problems and knitted pastel-coloured jumpers would be able to recognise from obscure photographs. As someone who spent nigh on 20 years in that little row of seats in front of the director's box, I've got a lot invested emotionally in that stand. During the Mickey Evans testimonial I did a complete circuit of the ground and eventually came back to the place I started. Like a god damn salmon.

And now the stand is like an old dog whose legs have gone. I don't want to part with the blessed old thing, but you've only got to look at the state it's in to know that it's time someone showed a final act of mercy. Damn shame. Like an old dog, it smells a bit funny too. A window missed me by about 2 feet as it fell out of one of the director's boxes about five years ago. Then they were forced to put an end to terracing and we had those god damn seats. Then the seats got ripped out and it was as if the old dog was looking at its owners with an expression that said "oh god please, I've had a good innings, I'm begging you to set me free".

So I'm incredibly greatful that someone's finally going to take old Shep away and introduce him to a couple of .303s. It'll be gut-wrenching when the bulldozers roll in though. Nostalgia, the sands of time, you pee me right off.

I don't really care that much about architecture - this isn't a restoration of Salisbury Cathedral, this is a football stadium, and football stadia generally are quite boring to look at. Most of the stadiums in our division, and the one above, are nothing but a few corrugated-iron sheds over a bit of concrete, with a bunch of seats shoehorned into a space that Warwick Davis would describe as "snug". Even so, why the hell are we being given something that looks like it's been pulled out of a subbuteo box? Why not just add those extra five rows to the existing tier instead of this laughable shelf thing? It's like an ugly bird walking out of a hair salon with a ridiculous haircut. I wasn't expecting Cameron Diaz when you emerged, but come on ffs.

Brent can give all the platitudes about future developments that he wants, but I'm peed off with all that. After "we will finish the stadium", "the money will come" and "Heaney will close the deal", I'm well beyond the point where platitudes and media-friendly statements like "we can extend the stadium" register on the give-o-poo o'meter, especially when others are claiming this isn't economically viable or technically correct. I want sworn, legally-binding affidavits. I want technical drawings, I want long words I have to look up in dictionaries. I want diagrams. I want to be blinded with scientific, accounting and engineering concepts I haven't a hope of understanding. Like everyone else on pasoti, only then will I be able to draw conclusions.

Oh speaking of Pasoti, you pee me right off. If you're in the minority on something, don't make the ridiculous claim that you're actually part of a "silent majority". If the "silent majority" won't become a noisy majority then either a) they don't exist or b) they don't have the courage of their convictions, in which case who the hell cares what they think anyway?? If you're too bloody apathetic to even bitch and whine about it (bearing in mind that bitching and whining is every Janner's god-given right) then f**k you and the milkman that fathered you. I could worry that they'd respond to that with a witty and cruel put-down of their own, but of course they're the SILENT majority so I'm pretty much OK. Boy does that pee me off.

And by the way, if you claim to represent the "silent majority", then by your own logic shut the fudge up. Or what part of the word "silent" do you struggle with?

Now, there are lots of Argyle fans who don't read pasoti, and they pee me off too. We're having this capacity debate because people are pointing to little peaks on a graph and saying "see!!! this is how many fans we could get!!" That's the problem - they're peaks, not something concrete like a trend. If we'd got 16-17000 consistently during the good times then it would have been so much easier to make the case for bigger capacity. As it is, people turned up for the odd match during the first season, and got bored as soon as the novelty wore off. The sort of people who turned up for Leeds and Everton with Argyle scarves they'd dusted down from the loft, and would have forgotten the names of all the home team by the time they got to Alma Road. And we're worried about them missing out on tickets to big games in the future? Who the hell cares about those people? I'd rather have 15000 people giving it the beans than 4000 more who are just there for a water-cooler moment. Screw the money.

They patently had no interest in taking up Argyle as a life-long thing, and as soon as we've next spent a season up in that division, they'll come and go again. By the time Holloway had us 4th in the league they'd pretty much all gone back to their sofas. Maybe, just maybe, we'd have had a chance that season if we did have bigger crowds. Maybe we'd have held on to some of the better players. Maybe we wouldn't have had to replace them with god damn deadbeats like David Macnamee and Chris Clark. Plymouth had a real chance that season and while people are blaming the greed of the players, Ollie, the board or whoever, it seems few are willing to point the finger at the real culprits. I bet some of those very people are reading this, and I'll bet they'll come out with all the excuses - tough economic climate, cost of living going up, all that crap. And I bet that as soon as we find ourselves on the cusp of promotion, or facing a big team with lots of 'slebs in the Cup, they'll magically find room in their funds for a couple of games after all. And they'll all be on here claiming that they never really went away. Yes, you did.

That's the trouble with bleddy Plymouth - they moan about things when they exist, they make up lame poo excuses to not use them, and then they moan even louder when they're gone. If you'd rather have a sky subscription and watch Stoke v Wigan every week, don't bleddy complain when James Brent won't build an extra 2500 seats for you to sit in half a dozen times.

Of course, capacity wouldn't be an issue if standing was still an option. Safe standing exists and has been well-documented in countries like Germany. It works, and if it's done right it could easily add that extra 2500 that people are manking on about. Everyone would be happy (well as happy as Janners can be, which isn't very). But once again we're seeing the footballing authorities moving at their usual glacial speed. It's taken us ten years to even begin to catch up with cricket and rugby in the technology stakes, so god knows how long it'll be before logic prevails again. God that pees me off.

I wanted a bigger stadium, but I also wanted people to fill it every week, and any business plan that relies on Janners not being apathetic is doomed to failure. Having looked at the plans and mulled them over I'm peed off, but not with James Brent. I'm peed off with Plymouth. And when someone finally cuts the ribbon on this piece of crap we're all anticipating, I know who I'll blame.

Just....pee off.
 
Jun 23, 2011
2,411
0
Plymouth
PL2 3DQ":1aex25dk said:
esmer":1aex25dk said:
Pafcintheplace":1aex25dk said:
:sigh: Getting pretty tired of all this Trust bashing.

The same people calling for unity are also nit picking and attempting to devalue/undermine what the Trust is trying to achieve, namely a better deal for the football club.

Keep up the good work AFT :clap:
I do sense PL2 isn't wholly supportive of the Trust.

The Trust as a model is fine, it's the new militant and unsupportive direction taken under the new unelected leadership that is my concern, as highlighted by the attack on the club before the Wimbledon game.

As far as I am aware the electoral prosess followed the rules laid down by Supporters Direct, who helped the Trust set up originally. Therefore I dont get the "unelected" barb.

I also dont beleive the Trust said anything that was not factually correct or supported by a significant number of fans before the Wimbledon game. Perhaps some of the bashers on here will quote the factually incorrect statements of the trust's "attack" and enlighten us?

Personally I am happy with the Trust. I am less happy with the club at the moment. However that is a personal view only; if the Trust critics feel so strongly and actually beleive in the trust as a model then put yoursleves up for election. The best way to change things is from the inside, so you could influence the direction. As a well known poster here Postey, and someone who did a massive amount help in the fight to save the club you would probably gain election to the Trust board easily. I am surprised you have not yet stood.
 

IJN

Site Owner
Nov 29, 2012
9,619
23,761
Andrew Owen":3am6sj3z said:
~~~~Rant warning - scroll wheels at the ready~~~~

I'm just about fully peed off with everyone and everything.

Like everyone else, I wanted a nice big shiny stadium. Something that people with beards, adenoidal problems and knitted pastel-coloured jumpers would be able to recognise from obscure photographs. As someone who spent nigh on 20 years in that little row of seats in front of the director's box, I've got a lot invested emotionally in that stand. During the Mickey Evans testimonial I did a complete circuit of the ground and eventually came back to the place I started. Like a god damn salmon.

And now the stand is like an old dog whose legs have gone. I don't want to part with the blessed old thing, but you've only got to look at the state it's in to know that it's time someone showed a final act of mercy. Damn shame. Like an old dog, it smells a bit funny too. A window missed me by about 2 feet as it fell out of one of the director's boxes about five years ago. Then they were forced to put an end to terracing and we had those god damn seats. Then the seats got ripped out and it was as if the old dog was looking at its owners with an expression that said "oh god please, I've had a good innings, I'm begging you to set me free".

So I'm incredibly greatful that someone's finally going to take old Shep away and introduce him to a couple of .303s. It'll be gut-wrenching when the bulldozers roll in though. Nostalgia, the sands of time, you pee me right off.

I don't really care that much about architecture - this isn't a restoration of Salisbury Cathedral, this is a football stadium, and football stadia generally are quite boring to look at. Most of the stadiums in our division, and the one above, are nothing but a few corrugated-iron sheds over a bit of concrete, with a bunch of seats shoehorned into a space that Warwick Davis would describe as "snug". Even so, why the hell are we being given something that looks like it's been pulled out of a subbuteo box? Why not just add those extra five rows to the existing tier instead of this laughable shelf thing? It's like an ugly bird walking out of a hair salon with a ridiculous haircut. I wasn't expecting Cameron Diaz when you emerged, but come on ffs.

Brent can give all the platitudes about future developments that he wants, but I'm peed off with all that. After "we will finish the stadium", "the money will come" and "Heaney will close the deal", I'm well beyond the point where platitudes and media-friendly statements like "we can extend the stadium" register on the give-o-poo o'meter, especially when others are claiming this isn't economically viable or technically correct. I want sworn, legally-binding affidavits. I want technical drawings, I want long words I have to look up in dictionaries. I want diagrams. I want to be blinded with scientific, accounting and engineering concepts I haven't a hope of understanding. Like everyone else on pasoti, only then will I be able to draw conclusions.

Oh speaking of Pasoti, you pee me right off. If you're in the minority on something, don't make the ridiculous claim that you're actually part of a "silent majority". If the "silent majority" won't become a noisy majority then either a) they don't exist or b) they don't have the courage of their convictions, in which case who the hell cares what they think anyway?? If you're too bloody apathetic to even bitch and whine about it (bearing in mind that bitching and whining is every Janner's god-given right) then f**k you and the milkman that fathered you. I could worry that they'd respond to that with a witty and cruel put-down of their own, but of course they're the SILENT majority so I'm pretty much OK. Boy does that pee me off.

And by the way, if you claim to represent the "silent majority", then by your own logic shut the flip up. Or what part of the word "silent" do you struggle with?

Now, there are lots of Argyle fans who don't read pasoti, and they pee me off too. We're having this capacity debate because people are pointing to little peaks on a graph and saying "see!!! this is how many fans we could get!!" That's the problem - they're peaks, not something concrete like a trend. If we'd got 16-17000 consistently during the good times then it would have been so much easier to make the case for bigger capacity. As it is, people turned up for the odd match during the first season, and got bored as soon as the novelty wore off. The sort of people who turned up for Leeds and Everton with Argyle scarves they'd dusted down from the loft, and would have forgotten the names of all the home team by the time they got to Alma Road. And we're worried about them missing out on tickets to big games in the future? Who the hell cares about those people? I'd rather have 15000 people giving it the beans than 4000 more who are just there for a water-cooler moment. Screw the money.

They patently had no interest in taking up Argyle as a life-long thing, and as soon as we've next spent a season up in that division, they'll come and go again. By the time Holloway had us 4th in the league they'd pretty much all gone back to their sofas. Maybe, just maybe, we'd have had a chance that season if we did have bigger crowds. Maybe we'd have held on to some of the better players. Maybe we wouldn't have had to replace them with god damn deadbeats like David Macnamee and Chris Clark. Plymouth had a real chance that season and while people are blaming the greed of the players, Ollie, the board or whoever, it seems few are willing to point the finger at the real culprits. I bet some of those very people are reading this, and I'll bet they'll come out with all the excuses - tough economic climate, cost of living going up, all that crap. And I bet that as soon as we find ourselves on the cusp of promotion, or facing a big team with lots of 'slebs in the Cup, they'll magically find room in their funds for a couple of games after all. And they'll all be on here claiming that they never really went away. Yes, you did.

That's the trouble with bleddy Plymouth - they moan about things when they exist, they make up lame poo excuses to not use them, and then they moan even louder when they're gone. If you'd rather have a sky subscription and watch Stoke v Wigan every week, don't bleddy complain when James Brent won't build an extra 2500 seats for you to sit in half a dozen times.

Of course, capacity wouldn't be an issue if standing was still an option. Safe standing exists and has been well-documented in countries like Germany. It works, and if it's done right it could easily add that extra 2500 that people are manking on about. Everyone would be happy (well as happy as Janners can be, which isn't very). But once again we're seeing the footballing authorities moving at their usual glacial speed. It's taken us ten years to even begin to catch up with cricket and rugby in the technology stakes, so god knows how long it'll be before logic prevails again. God that pees me off.

I wanted a bigger stadium, but I also wanted people to fill it every week, and any business plan that relies on Janners not being apathetic is doomed to failure. Having looked at the plans and mulled them over I'm peed off, but not with James Brent. I'm peed off with Plymouth. And when someone finally cuts the ribbon on this piece of crap we're all anticipating, I know who I'll blame.

Just....pee off.

Rant of the year!! :lol: :nworthy:
 
Jan 16, 2010
13,126
1,809
plymouth
Andrew Owen":1f4a5ta4 said:
~~~~Rant warning - scroll wheels at the ready~~~~

I'm just about fully peed off with everyone and everything.

Like everyone else, I wanted a nice big shiny stadium. Something that people with beards, adenoidal problems and knitted pastel-coloured jumpers would be able to recognise from obscure photographs. As someone who spent nigh on 20 years in that little row of seats in front of the director's box, I've got a lot invested emotionally in that stand. During the Mickey Evans testimonial I did a complete circuit of the ground and eventually came back to the place I started. Like a god damn salmon.

And now the stand is like an old dog whose legs have gone. I don't want to part with the blessed old thing, but you've only got to look at the state it's in to know that it's time someone showed a final act of mercy. Damn shame. Like an old dog, it smells a bit funny too. A window missed me by about 2 feet as it fell out of one of the director's boxes about five years ago. Then they were forced to put an end to terracing and we had those god damn seats. Then the seats got ripped out and it was as if the old dog was looking at its owners with an expression that said "oh god please, I've had a good innings, I'm begging you to set me free".

So I'm incredibly greatful that someone's finally going to take old Shep away and introduce him to a couple of .303s. It'll be gut-wrenching when the bulldozers roll in though. Nostalgia, the sands of time, you pee me right off.

I don't really care that much about architecture - this isn't a restoration of Salisbury Cathedral, this is a football stadium, and football stadia generally are quite boring to look at. Most of the stadiums in our division, and the one above, are nothing but a few corrugated-iron sheds over a bit of concrete, with a bunch of seats shoehorned into a space that Warwick Davis would describe as "snug". Even so, why the hell are we being given something that looks like it's been pulled out of a subbuteo box? Why not just add those extra five rows to the existing tier instead of this laughable shelf thing? It's like an ugly bird walking out of a hair salon with a ridiculous haircut. I wasn't expecting Cameron Diaz when you emerged, but come on ffs.

Brent can give all the platitudes about future developments that he wants, but I'm peed off with all that. After "we will finish the stadium", "the money will come" and "Heaney will close the deal", I'm well beyond the point where platitudes and media-friendly statements like "we can extend the stadium" register on the give-o-poo o'meter, especially when others are claiming this isn't economically viable or technically correct. I want sworn, legally-binding affidavits. I want technical drawings, I want long words I have to look up in dictionaries. I want diagrams. I want to be blinded with scientific, accounting and engineering concepts I haven't a hope of understanding. Like everyone else on pasoti, only then will I be able to draw conclusions.

Oh speaking of Pasoti, you pee me right off. If you're in the minority on something, don't make the ridiculous claim that you're actually part of a "silent majority". If the "silent majority" won't become a noisy majority then either a) they don't exist or b) they don't have the courage of their convictions, in which case who the hell cares what they think anyway?? If you're too bloody apathetic to even bitch and whine about it (bearing in mind that bitching and whining is every Janner's god-given right) then f**k you and the milkman that fathered you. I could worry that they'd respond to that with a witty and cruel put-down of their own, but of course they're the SILENT majority so I'm pretty much OK. Boy does that pee me off.

And by the way, if you claim to represent the "silent majority", then by your own logic shut the flip up. Or what part of the word "silent" do you struggle with?

Now, there are lots of Argyle fans who don't read pasoti, and they pee me off too. We're having this capacity debate because people are pointing to little peaks on a graph and saying "see!!! this is how many fans we could get!!" That's the problem - they're peaks, not something concrete like a trend. If we'd got 16-17000 consistently during the good times then it would have been so much easier to make the case for bigger capacity. As it is, people turned up for the odd match during the first season, and got bored as soon as the novelty wore off. The sort of people who turned up for Leeds and Everton with Argyle scarves they'd dusted down from the loft, and would have forgotten the names of all the home team by the time they got to Alma Road. And we're worried about them missing out on tickets to big games in the future? Who the hell cares about those people? I'd rather have 15000 people giving it the beans than 4000 more who are just there for a water-cooler moment. Screw the money.

They patently had no interest in taking up Argyle as a life-long thing, and as soon as we've next spent a season up in that division, they'll come and go again. By the time Holloway had us 4th in the league they'd pretty much all gone back to their sofas. Maybe, just maybe, we'd have had a chance that season if we did have bigger crowds. Maybe we'd have held on to some of the better players. Maybe we wouldn't have had to replace them with god damn deadbeats like David Macnamee and Chris Clark. Plymouth had a real chance that season and while people are blaming the greed of the players, Ollie, the board or whoever, it seems few are willing to point the finger at the real culprits. I bet some of those very people are reading this, and I'll bet they'll come out with all the excuses - tough economic climate, cost of living going up, all that crap. And I bet that as soon as we find ourselves on the cusp of promotion, or facing a big team with lots of 'slebs in the Cup, they'll magically find room in their funds for a couple of games after all. And they'll all be on here claiming that they never really went away. Yes, you did.

That's the trouble with bleddy Plymouth - they moan about things when they exist, they make up lame poo excuses to not use them, and then they moan even louder when they're gone. If you'd rather have a sky subscription and watch Stoke v Wigan every week, don't bleddy complain when James Brent won't build an extra 2500 seats for you to sit in half a dozen times.

Of course, capacity wouldn't be an issue if standing was still an option. Safe standing exists and has been well-documented in countries like Germany. It works, and if it's done right it could easily add that extra 2500 that people are manking on about. Everyone would be happy (well as happy as Janners can be, which isn't very). But once again we're seeing the footballing authorities moving at their usual glacial speed. It's taken us ten years to even begin to catch up with cricket and rugby in the technology stakes, so god knows how long it'll be before logic prevails again. God that pees me off.

I wanted a bigger stadium, but I also wanted people to fill it every week, and any business plan that relies on Janners not being apathetic is doomed to failure. Having looked at the plans and mulled them over I'm peed off, but not with James Brent. I'm peed off with Plymouth. And when someone finally cuts the ribbon on this piece of crap we're all anticipating, I know who I'll blame.

Just....pee off.
brilliantly funny.well done mate :clap:
 
C

Cobi Budge.

Guest
I think everybody wanted a brand spanking beautiful new stadium with incredible stands that look just like the one at Hull or the one at Brighton etc. However unfortunately lets remember we can't get a stand like that in this league.

Hull and Brighton were both championship clubs (brighton to be promoted) when they built new stands/new stadiums, we unfortunately aren't, and on current evidence I see no way we will be able to climb the leagues. We have a fairly poor team, we have a board who seem to know little about football, the ambition on the pitch just isn't there, therefore the ambition in the development department also isn't there.

The ground needs to be developed, no question about it, we all wanted something amazing, some beautiful ambitious new scheme which would top Nou camp and the Emirates however as fans, we are living in the past due to the garbage we have served up over the last few years.

People say we are a big club, now this point needs to be addressed, how are we a big club? We have a fairly large stadium, we have a good history, and we have ok crowds. In my opinion there is no such thing as a big club, clubs should be measured on league status and whether they are run well. I add in the 'run well' part as you might misunderstand me and start assuming I believe Crawley to be a good club.

I'm sorry but Cheltenham, Southend, Morecambe, Wycombe, AFCW, Dagenham and even little old Torquay are better than us. What gives us the right to demand huge plans over Morecambe? They are the better football team? Plans should be based on League status.

The current plans proposed by the board are satisfactory and considering where we are in the league, I think we should be darn pleased with the plans. Success on the pitch will bring higher league status, it will bring higher crowds, and with it optimism for the future of the club, until that happens, huge scale premier league plans just aren't credible.

Success on the pitch will bring opportunity off the pitch.
 

up the line

🚑 Steve Hooper
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Mar 7, 2010
7,633
3,918
Manchester
AO that is bang on the money.
"Oh we had 18,000 against Leeds once upon a time so obviously we need a MASSIVE stadium so that all the johnny-come-latelies can turn off Sky once a season and ask the Season Ticket holder next to them 'Er what colour are we in mate?' and 'Will Dalton be playing today?'"

Like you I'm p1ssed off that we're getting a stadium that looks like its been built out of the remnants of the lego collection thats been gathering dust in my loft but yeah your spot on and echo my sentiments that the Plymouth public gets what the Plymouth Public deserves.
Now residents of Norwich for example, who dropped to League 1 but managed to maintain a consistent average crowd of over 25,000 (Norwich population; 140, 000) would have a legitimate right to get a bit sh!tty if their Chairman were to say 'Lads I'm delighted to announce that building work will soon commence to take Carrow Road's capacity down to 17,500) but Plymothians....?
 

Dazzy3000

✅ Evergreen
Dec 3, 2008
1,082
318
Cobi Budge.":13nknv2z said:
I think everybody wanted a brand spanking beautiful new stadium with incredible stands that look just like the one at Hull or the one at Brighton etc. However unfortunately lets remember we can't get a stand like that in this league.

Hull and Brighton were both championship clubs (brighton to be promoted) when they built new stands/new stadiums, we unfortunately aren't, and on current evidence I see no way we will be able to climb the leagues. We have a fairly poor team, we have a board who seem to know little about football, the ambition on the pitch just isn't there, therefore the ambition in the development department also isn't there.

The ground needs to be developed, no question about it, we all wanted something amazing, some beautiful ambitious new scheme which would top Nou camp and the Emirates however as fans, we are living in the past due to the garbage we have served up over the last few years.

People say we are a big club, now this point needs to be addressed, how are we a big club? We have a fairly large stadium, we have a good history, and we have ok crowds. In my opinion there is no such thing as a big club, clubs should be measured on league status and whether they are run well. I add in the 'run well' part as you might misunderstand me and start assuming I believe Crawley to be a good club.

I'm sorry but Cheltenham, Southend, Morecambe, Wycombe, AFCW, Dagenham and even little old Torquay are better than us. What gives us the right to demand huge plans over Morecambe? They are the better football team? Plans should be based on League status.

The current plans proposed by the board are satisfactory and considering where we are in the league, I think we should be darn pleased with the plans. Success on the pitch will bring higher league status, it will bring higher crowds, and with it optimism for the future of the club, until that happens, huge scale premier league plans just aren't credible.

Success on the pitch will bring opportunity off the pitch.

So do we just wait til we're good again and then scurry around building a bigger stadium?
 

up the line

🚑 Steve Hooper
🌟Sparksy Mural🌟
Mar 7, 2010
7,633
3,918
Manchester
dazzy3000":1wuu8c4v said:
Cobi Budge.":1wuu8c4v said:
I think everybody wanted a brand spanking beautiful new stadium with incredible stands that look just like the one at Hull or the one at Brighton etc. However unfortunately lets remember we can't get a stand like that in this league.

Hull and Brighton were both championship clubs (brighton to be promoted) when they built new stands/new stadiums, we unfortunately aren't, and on current evidence I see no way we will be able to climb the leagues. We have a fairly poor team, we have a board who seem to know little about football, the ambition on the pitch just isn't there, therefore the ambition in the development department also isn't there.

The ground needs to be developed, no question about it, we all wanted something amazing, some beautiful ambitious new scheme which would top Nou camp and the Emirates however as fans, we are living in the past due to the garbage we have served up over the last few years.

People say we are a big club, now this point needs to be addressed, how are we a big club? We have a fairly large stadium, we have a good history, and we have ok crowds. In my opinion there is no such thing as a big club, clubs should be measured on league status and whether they are run well. I add in the 'run well' part as you might misunderstand me and start assuming I believe Crawley to be a good club.

I'm sorry but Cheltenham, Southend, Morecambe, Wycombe, AFCW, Dagenham and even little old Torquay are better than us. What gives us the right to demand huge plans over Morecambe? They are the better football team? Plans should be based on League status.

The current plans proposed by the board are satisfactory and considering where we are in the league, I think we should be darn pleased with the plans. Success on the pitch will bring higher league status, it will bring higher crowds, and with it optimism for the future of the club, until that happens, huge scale premier league plans just aren't credible.

Success on the pitch will bring opportunity off the pitch.

So do we just wait til we're good again and then scurry around building a bigger stadium?

No - because even then Janners won't bother - as has been pointed out, apart from the odd FA Cup quarter final or glamour game we rarely broke the 17,000 mark during our most successful recent period - what would be so different if we were to get to the Championship again?
 
Feb 25, 2008
1,093
34
Crownhill
Andrew Owen":17zxe89g said:
~~~~Rant warning - scroll wheels at the ready~~~~

I'm just about fully peed off with everyone and everything.

Like everyone else, I wanted a nice big shiny stadium. Something that people with beards, adenoidal problems and knitted pastel-coloured jumpers would be able to recognise from obscure photographs. As someone who spent nigh on 20 years in that little row of seats in front of the director's box, I've got a lot invested emotionally in that stand. During the Mickey Evans testimonial I did a complete circuit of the ground and eventually came back to the place I started. Like a god damn salmon.

And now the stand is like an old dog whose legs have gone. I don't want to part with the blessed old thing, but you've only got to look at the state it's in to know that it's time someone showed a final act of mercy. Damn shame. Like an old dog, it smells a bit funny too. A window missed me by about 2 feet as it fell out of one of the director's boxes about five years ago. Then they were forced to put an end to terracing and we had those god damn seats. Then the seats got ripped out and it was as if the old dog was looking at its owners with an expression that said "oh god please, I've had a good innings, I'm begging you to set me free".

So I'm incredibly greatful that someone's finally going to take old Shep away and introduce him to a couple of .303s. It'll be gut-wrenching when the bulldozers roll in though. Nostalgia, the sands of time, you pee me right off.

I don't really care that much about architecture - this isn't a restoration of Salisbury Cathedral, this is a football stadium, and football stadia generally are quite boring to look at. Most of the stadiums in our division, and the one above, are nothing but a few corrugated-iron sheds over a bit of concrete, with a bunch of seats shoehorned into a space that Warwick Davis would describe as "snug". Even so, why the hell are we being given something that looks like it's been pulled out of a subbuteo box? Why not just add those extra five rows to the existing tier instead of this laughable shelf thing? It's like an ugly bird walking out of a hair salon with a ridiculous haircut. I wasn't expecting Cameron Diaz when you emerged, but come on ffs.

Brent can give all the platitudes about future developments that he wants, but I'm peed off with all that. After "we will finish the stadium", "the money will come" and "Heaney will close the deal", I'm well beyond the point where platitudes and media-friendly statements like "we can extend the stadium" register on the give-o-poo o'meter, especially when others are claiming this isn't economically viable or technically correct. I want sworn, legally-binding affidavits. I want technical drawings, I want long words I have to look up in dictionaries. I want diagrams. I want to be blinded with scientific, accounting and engineering concepts I haven't a hope of understanding. Like everyone else on pasoti, only then will I be able to draw conclusions.

Oh speaking of Pasoti, you pee me right off. If you're in the minority on something, don't make the ridiculous claim that you're actually part of a "silent majority". If the "silent majority" won't become a noisy majority then either a) they don't exist or b) they don't have the courage of their convictions, in which case who the hell cares what they think anyway?? If you're too bloody apathetic to even bitch and whine about it (bearing in mind that bitching and whining is every Janner's god-given right) then f**k you and the milkman that fathered you. I could worry that they'd respond to that with a witty and cruel put-down of their own, but of course they're the SILENT majority so I'm pretty much OK. Boy does that pee me off.

And by the way, if you claim to represent the "silent majority", then by your own logic shut the flip up. Or what part of the word "silent" do you struggle with?

Now, there are lots of Argyle fans who don't read pasoti, and they pee me off too. We're having this capacity debate because people are pointing to little peaks on a graph and saying "see!!! this is how many fans we could get!!" That's the problem - they're peaks, not something concrete like a trend. If we'd got 16-17000 consistently during the good times then it would have been so much easier to make the case for bigger capacity. As it is, people turned up for the odd match during the first season, and got bored as soon as the novelty wore off. The sort of people who turned up for Leeds and Everton with Argyle scarves they'd dusted down from the loft, and would have forgotten the names of all the home team by the time they got to Alma Road. And we're worried about them missing out on tickets to big games in the future? Who the hell cares about those people? I'd rather have 15000 people giving it the beans than 4000 more who are just there for a water-cooler moment. Screw the money.

They patently had no interest in taking up Argyle as a life-long thing, and as soon as we've next spent a season up in that division, they'll come and go again. By the time Holloway had us 4th in the league they'd pretty much all gone back to their sofas. Maybe, just maybe, we'd have had a chance that season if we did have bigger crowds. Maybe we'd have held on to some of the better players. Maybe we wouldn't have had to replace them with god damn deadbeats like David Macnamee and Chris Clark. Plymouth had a real chance that season and while people are blaming the greed of the players, Ollie, the board or whoever, it seems few are willing to point the finger at the real culprits. I bet some of those very people are reading this, and I'll bet they'll come out with all the excuses - tough economic climate, cost of living going up, all that crap. And I bet that as soon as we find ourselves on the cusp of promotion, or facing a big team with lots of 'slebs in the Cup, they'll magically find room in their funds for a couple of games after all. And they'll all be on here claiming that they never really went away. Yes, you did.

That's the trouble with bleddy Plymouth - they moan about things when they exist, they make up lame poo excuses to not use them, and then they moan even louder when they're gone. If you'd rather have a sky subscription and watch Stoke v Wigan every week, don't bleddy complain when James Brent won't build an extra 2500 seats for you to sit in half a dozen times.

Of course, capacity wouldn't be an issue if standing was still an option. Safe standing exists and has been well-documented in countries like Germany. It works, and if it's done right it could easily add that extra 2500 that people are manking on about. Everyone would be happy (well as happy as Janners can be, which isn't very). But once again we're seeing the footballing authorities moving at their usual glacial speed. It's taken us ten years to even begin to catch up with cricket and rugby in the technology stakes, so god knows how long it'll be before logic prevails again. God that pees me off.

I wanted a bigger stadium, but I also wanted people to fill it every week, and any business plan that relies on Janners not being apathetic is doomed to failure. Having looked at the plans and mulled them over I'm peed off, but not with James Brent. I'm peed off with Plymouth. And when someone finally cuts the ribbon on this piece of crap we're all anticipating, I know who I'll blame.

Just....pee off.

Nothing wrong with Chris Clark!
 

Biggs

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Feb 14, 2010
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Cobi Budge.":1w2lgwi1 said:
I think everybody wanted a brand spanking beautiful new stadium with incredible stands that look just like the one at Hull or the one at Brighton etc. However unfortunately lets remember we can't get a stand like that in this league.

Hull and Brighton were both championship clubs (brighton to be promoted) when they built new stands/new stadiums, we unfortunately aren't, and on current evidence I see no way we will be able to climb the leagues. We have a fairly poor team, we have a board who seem to know little about football, the ambition on the pitch just isn't there, therefore the ambition in the development department also isn't there.

The ground needs to be developed, no question about it, we all wanted something amazing, some beautiful ambitious new scheme which would top Nou camp and the Emirates however as fans, we are living in the past due to the garbage we have served up over the last few years.

People say we are a big club, now this point needs to be addressed, how are we a big club? We have a fairly large stadium, we have a good history, and we have ok crowds. In my opinion there is no such thing as a big club, clubs should be measured on league status and whether they are run well. I add in the 'run well' part as you might misunderstand me and start assuming I believe Crawley to be a good club.

I'm sorry but Cheltenham, Southend, Morecambe, Wycombe, AFCW, Dagenham and even little old Torquay are better than us. What gives us the right to demand huge plans over Morecambe? They are the better football team? Plans should be based on League status.

The current plans proposed by the board are satisfactory and considering where we are in the league, I think we should be darn pleased with the plans. Success on the pitch will bring higher league status, it will bring higher crowds, and with it optimism for the future of the club, until that happens, huge scale premier league plans just aren't credible.

Success on the pitch will bring opportunity off the pitch.

Wrong. Hull were struggling in the Third Division (fourth tier) when they built the KC in 2002, and Brighton were treading water in League One when the Amex was finally approved. Swansea were in League Two when the Liberty started construction, and Reading were in Division Two (third tier) when the Madejski opened. ALL of those clubs saw immediate success from the feel-good factor and/or the funds generated by vastly increased attendances, all of which hugely improved on traditional averages (the stats have been posted on these forums).

And the second bolded section is too ridiculous (assuming you're serious) to merit response.
 
Jul 25, 2011
2,086
0
Cobi Budge.":3sn0ozkj said:
I think everybody wanted a brand spanking beautiful new stadium with incredible stands that look just like the one at Hull or the one at Brighton etc. However unfortunately lets remember we can't get a stand like that in this league.

Hull and Brighton were both championship clubs (brighton to be promoted) when they built new stands/new stadiums, we unfortunately aren't, and on current evidence I see no way we will be able to climb the leagues. We have a fairly poor team, we have a board who seem to know little about football, the ambition on the pitch just isn't there, therefore the ambition in the development department also isn't there.

The ground needs to be developed, no question about it, we all wanted something amazing, some beautiful ambitious new scheme which would top Nou camp and the Emirates however as fans, we are living in the past due to the garbage we have served up over the last few years.

People say we are a big club, now this point needs to be addressed, how are we a big club? We have a fairly large stadium, we have a good history, and we have ok crowds. In my opinion there is no such thing as a big club, clubs should be measured on league status and whether they are run well. I add in the 'run well' part as you might misunderstand me and start assuming I believe Crawley to be a good club.

I'm sorry but Cheltenham, Southend, Morecambe, Wycombe, AFCW, Dagenham and even little old Torquay are better than us. What gives us the right to demand huge plans over Morecambe? They are the better football team? Plans should be based on League status.

The current plans proposed by the board are satisfactory and considering where we are in the league, I think we should be darn pleased with the plans. Success on the pitch will bring higher league status, it will bring higher crowds, and with it optimism for the future of the club, until that happens, huge scale premier league plans just aren't credible.

Success on the pitch will bring opportunity off the pitch.
Sorry cobi but Brighton and hull WERE in this league when they started their stadiums
 

greeneagle

✅ Evergreen
Jan 26, 2004
3,694
36
Brisbane, Australia
Andrew Owen":36ftylsx said:
~~~~Rant warning - scroll wheels at the ready~~~~

I'm just about fully peed off with everyone and everything.

Like everyone else, I wanted a nice big shiny stadium. Something that people with beards, adenoidal problems and knitted pastel-coloured jumpers would be able to recognise from obscure photographs. As someone who spent nigh on 20 years in that little row of seats in front of the director's box, I've got a lot invested emotionally in that stand. During the Mickey Evans testimonial I did a complete circuit of the ground and eventually came back to the place I started. Like a god damn salmon.

And now the stand is like an old dog whose legs have gone. I don't want to part with the blessed old thing, but you've only got to look at the state it's in to know that it's time someone showed a final act of mercy. Damn shame. Like an old dog, it smells a bit funny too. A window missed me by about 2 feet as it fell out of one of the director's boxes about five years ago. Then they were forced to put an end to terracing and we had those god damn seats. Then the seats got ripped out and it was as if the old dog was looking at its owners with an expression that said "oh god please, I've had a good innings, I'm begging you to set me free".

So I'm incredibly greatful that someone's finally going to take old Shep away and introduce him to a couple of .303s. It'll be gut-wrenching when the bulldozers roll in though. Nostalgia, the sands of time, you pee me right off.

I don't really care that much about architecture - this isn't a restoration of Salisbury Cathedral, this is a football stadium, and football stadia generally are quite boring to look at. Most of the stadiums in our division, and the one above, are nothing but a few corrugated-iron sheds over a bit of concrete, with a bunch of seats shoehorned into a space that Warwick Davis would describe as "snug". Even so, why the hell are we being given something that looks like it's been pulled out of a subbuteo box? Why not just add those extra five rows to the existing tier instead of this laughable shelf thing? It's like an ugly bird walking out of a hair salon with a ridiculous haircut. I wasn't expecting Cameron Diaz when you emerged, but come on ffs.

Brent can give all the platitudes about future developments that he wants, but I'm peed off with all that. After "we will finish the stadium", "the money will come" and "Heaney will close the deal", I'm well beyond the point where platitudes and media-friendly statements like "we can extend the stadium" register on the give-o-poo o'meter, especially when others are claiming this isn't economically viable or technically correct. I want sworn, legally-binding affidavits. I want technical drawings, I want long words I have to look up in dictionaries. I want diagrams. I want to be blinded with scientific, accounting and engineering concepts I haven't a hope of understanding. Like everyone else on pasoti, only then will I be able to draw conclusions.

Oh speaking of Pasoti, you pee me right off. If you're in the minority on something, don't make the ridiculous claim that you're actually part of a "silent majority". If the "silent majority" won't become a noisy majority then either a) they don't exist or b) they don't have the courage of their convictions, in which case who the hell cares what they think anyway?? If you're too bloody apathetic to even bitch and whine about it (bearing in mind that bitching and whining is every Janner's god-given right) then f**k you and the milkman that fathered you. I could worry that they'd respond to that with a witty and cruel put-down of their own, but of course they're the SILENT majority so I'm pretty much OK. Boy does that pee me off.

And by the way, if you claim to represent the "silent majority", then by your own logic shut the flip up. Or what part of the word "silent" do you struggle with?

Now, there are lots of Argyle fans who don't read pasoti, and they pee me off too. We're having this capacity debate because people are pointing to little peaks on a graph and saying "see!!! this is how many fans we could get!!" That's the problem - they're peaks, not something concrete like a trend. If we'd got 16-17000 consistently during the good times then it would have been so much easier to make the case for bigger capacity. As it is, people turned up for the odd match during the first season, and got bored as soon as the novelty wore off. The sort of people who turned up for Leeds and Everton with Argyle scarves they'd dusted down from the loft, and would have forgotten the names of all the home team by the time they got to Alma Road. And we're worried about them missing out on tickets to big games in the future? Who the hell cares about those people? I'd rather have 15000 people giving it the beans than 4000 more who are just there for a water-cooler moment. Screw the money.

They patently had no interest in taking up Argyle as a life-long thing, and as soon as we've next spent a season up in that division, they'll come and go again. By the time Holloway had us 4th in the league they'd pretty much all gone back to their sofas. Maybe, just maybe, we'd have had a chance that season if we did have bigger crowds. Maybe we'd have held on to some of the better players. Maybe we wouldn't have had to replace them with god damn deadbeats like David Macnamee and Chris Clark. Plymouth had a real chance that season and while people are blaming the greed of the players, Ollie, the board or whoever, it seems few are willing to point the finger at the real culprits. I bet some of those very people are reading this, and I'll bet they'll come out with all the excuses - tough economic climate, cost of living going up, all that crap. And I bet that as soon as we find ourselves on the cusp of promotion, or facing a big team with lots of 'slebs in the Cup, they'll magically find room in their funds for a couple of games after all. And they'll all be on here claiming that they never really went away. Yes, you did.

That's the trouble with bleddy Plymouth - they moan about things when they exist, they make up lame poo excuses to not use them, and then they moan even louder when they're gone. If you'd rather have a sky subscription and watch Stoke v Wigan every week, don't bleddy complain when James Brent won't build an extra 2500 seats for you to sit in half a dozen times.

Of course, capacity wouldn't be an issue if standing was still an option. Safe standing exists and has been well-documented in countries like Germany. It works, and if it's done right it could easily add that extra 2500 that people are manking on about. Everyone would be happy (well as happy as Janners can be, which isn't very). But once again we're seeing the footballing authorities moving at their usual glacial speed. It's taken us ten years to even begin to catch up with cricket and rugby in the technology stakes, so god knows how long it'll be before logic prevails again. God that pees me off.

I wanted a bigger stadium, but I also wanted people to fill it every week, and any business plan that relies on Janners not being apathetic is doomed to failure. Having looked at the plans and mulled them over I'm peed off, but not with James Brent. I'm peed off with Plymouth. And when someone finally cuts the ribbon on this piece of crap we're all anticipating, I know who I'll blame.

Just....pee off.

Brilliant post, should be stickied!
 
Jan 4, 2011
34
6
After visiting the consultation and having a week to think about the proposal I have come to the conclusion that the main reason for lack of support clearly evident amongst the green army is the lowering of the ground capacity, already slashed over recent decades. Therefore the lack of a proper second tier is the real issue. With this in mind, and also bearing in mind the need to keep the rest of the development (hotel/cinema/ice rink) intact which no doubt makes the whole thing financially viable I have drawn what I believe would be a quite workable solution for consideration here. This would give a full second tier, but maintain rest of the current details. An external structure would be required to enable the columns shown supporting the cantilever roof to be removed but this would fit between the stand and adjacent buildings. No doubt some additional internal space would be required to cope with the additional capacity - wider fire escapes, more toilets etc. - but I would think these could be accommodated. So here it is:
8598700470_a9f2420231_b.jpg
 
B

Baby Face Johnson

Guest
Me likey, If this is workable get it done now. We all know any future expansion is extremely unlikely.