Orient v Argyle match thread | Page 16 | PASOTI
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Orient v Argyle match thread

Forest of Dean Green

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oldage":o6mw8q1c said:
I suspect he was as surprised as anyone by our second half capitulation. Despite it being very early in the season the ongoing issues with our defence is all too apparent.

Is it though? We won against Blackpool because of that defence. And everyone was purring about Aimson and Wootton. We defended really well, and from front to back. We were shambolic against Orient in the second half. In Lowe’s style we will score and we will concede. Too early to say which will prevail - the Blackpool or O’s version.
 

PL2 3DQ

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Leyton Orient v Spurs live on Sky Sports. :facepalm:
 

davie nine

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vibratingspider":r1jx9d9x said:
arrythewurzel":r1jx9d9x said:
We do look a bit exposed defensively and I think we would be improved if Bakinson came back or someone of his physique and ability. Perhaps Lowe is still in the market for such a player as he was interested in getting Backinsom back but all went quiet. We’re still work in progress with quite a few changes to lineups and new personnel slotting in so not overly concerned apart from goals shipped.

Bit early to be deciding ... but it feels a weaker squad than last year without Bakinson Sarce McFadzean and Palmer. Feels a bit more lightweight to me. Time will tell.

We definitely need more cover at the back, Bakinson would be a great addition.

I don't think Cooper is the answer, he doesn't look anywhere near good enough and he has no presence whatsoever. The fact we've let Palmer slip through our fingers thinking we had sufficient keepers already is a mistake I think Lowe is going to rue all season.

I actually think Lincoln are going to be there or there abouts this season, they've made some quality signings and smashed Bradford 5-0 last night. Two clean sheets out of two so far for Palmer :sigh:
That is very unfair criticism of Mike Cooper. He has been excellent in every game to date.He made several good saves in the first half when, overall, we dominated.
Many goalkeepers opt to punch the ball in a crowded penalty area and there was still opportunity to clear the ball before it came back in.
For their second goal, he came out to help his defence but McAnuff took advantage of a good bounce to lob him.
For the third, he was unable to block the advancing player after Wootton’s disastrous mis-control.
I suggest that you watch Cooper’s performances for a few more games before coming to such a ‘knee jerk’ conclusion.
 
Sep 6, 2006
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davie nine":jor2wqqy said:
vibratingspider":jor2wqqy said:
arrythewurzel":jor2wqqy said:
We do look a bit exposed defensively and I think we would be improved if Bakinson came back or someone of his physique and ability. Perhaps Lowe is still in the market for such a player as he was interested in getting Backinsom back but all went quiet. We’re still work in progress with quite a few changes to lineups and new personnel slotting in so not overly concerned apart from goals shipped.

Bit early to be deciding ... but it feels a weaker squad than last year without Bakinson Sarce McFadzean and Palmer. Feels a bit more lightweight to me. Time will tell.

We definitely need more cover at the back, Bakinson would be a great addition.

I don't think Cooper is the answer, he doesn't look anywhere near good enough and he has no presence whatsoever. The fact we've let Palmer slip through our fingers thinking we had sufficient keepers already is a mistake I think Lowe is going to rue all season.

I actually think Lincoln are going to be there or there abouts this season, they've made some quality signings and smashed Bradford 5-0 last night. Two clean sheets out of two so far for Palmer :sigh:
That is very unfair criticism of Mike Cooper. He has been excellent in every game to date.He made several good saves in the first half when, overall, we dominated.
Many goalkeepers opt to punch the ball in a crowded penalty area and there was still opportunity to clear the ball before it came back in.
For their second goal, he came out to help his defence but McAnuff took advantage of a good bounce to lob him.
For the third, he was unable to block the advancing player after Wootton’s disastrous mis-control.
I suggest that you watch Cooper’s performances for a few more games before coming to such a ‘knee jerk’ conclusion.

Agree re 2nd and 3rd goals. But his weaknesses are there for all to see and will probably be exploited. Keepers do often punch but not every time. Good shot stopper but that may not be enough.
 
Oct 14, 2015
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Argylegames":3scl072q said:
PL2 3DQ":3scl072q said:
Leyton Orient v Spurs live on Sky Sports. :facepalm:

But Argyle v Spurs wouldn't have been - too far from Lundan

Who knows if we’d have been on Sky but with Orient being connected to Harry Kane then the romance of the cup is to big for Sky to ignore
 
May 22, 2006
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With Spurs currently losing in Bulgaria, they may need to field a strong side next Tuesday for a chance to win something this season.
 

Keepitgreen

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pastiesforlife":1lqmqr77 said:
With Spurs currently losing in Bulgaria, they may need to field a strong side next Tuesday for a chance to win something this season.
Winning 2-1 with 5 to go.
 
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Keepitgreen":1h16j4zy said:
pastiesforlife":1h16j4zy said:
With Spurs currently losing in Bulgaria, they may need to field a strong side next Tuesday for a chance to win something this season.
Winning 2-1 with 5 to go.

Yep, Spurs turn it around with a penalty and two of the opposition getting sent off.

Elsewhere In Europa, Carey is on the bench for CSKA. I thought he’d left them but he also played some of their game last week.
 

cheshiregreen

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pastiesforlife":6fzr3r26 said:
Keepitgreen":6fzr3r26 said:
pastiesforlife":6fzr3r26 said:
With Spurs currently losing in Bulgaria, they may need to field a strong side next Tuesday for a chance to win something this season.
Winning 2-1 with 5 to go.

Yep, Spurs turn it around with a penalty and two of the opposition getting sent off.

Elsewhere In Europa, Carey is on the bench for CSKA. I thought he’d left them but he also played some of their game last week.


And Spurs now play a Macedonian side next Thursday, so Orient v Spurs kids will be the Sky game next Tuesday. :roll:
 

Emu

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pastiesforlife":2els14u5 said:
Keepitgreen":2els14u5 said:
pastiesforlife":2els14u5 said:
With Spurs currently losing in Bulgaria, they may need to field a strong side next Tuesday for a chance to win something this season.
Winning 2-1 with 5 to go.

Yep, Spurs turn it around with a penalty and two of the opposition getting sent off.

Elsewhere In Europa, Carey is on the bench for CSKA. I thought he’d left them but he also played some of their game last week.

Carey came off the bench and scored v Bate.
 

vibratingspider

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davie nine":3du8xvqv said:
vibratingspider":3du8xvqv said:
arrythewurzel":3du8xvqv said:
We do look a bit exposed defensively and I think we would be improved if Bakinson came back or someone of his physique and ability. Perhaps Lowe is still in the market for such a player as he was interested in getting Backinsom back but all went quiet. We’re still work in progress with quite a few changes to lineups and new personnel slotting in so not overly concerned apart from goals shipped.

Bit early to be deciding ... but it feels a weaker squad than last year without Bakinson Sarce McFadzean and Palmer. Feels a bit more lightweight to me. Time will tell.

We definitely need more cover at the back, Bakinson would be a great addition.

I don't think Cooper is the answer, he doesn't look anywhere near good enough and he has no presence whatsoever. The fact we've let Palmer slip through our fingers thinking we had sufficient keepers already is a mistake I think Lowe is going to rue all season.

I actually think Lincoln are going to be there or there abouts this season, they've made some quality signings and smashed Bradford 5-0 last night. Two clean sheets out of two so far for Palmer :sigh:
That is very unfair criticism of Mike Cooper. He has been excellent in every game to date.He made several good saves in the first half when, overall, we dominated.
Many goalkeepers opt to punch the ball in a crowded penalty area and there was still opportunity to clear the ball before it came back in.
For their second goal, he came out to help his defence but McAnuff took advantage of a good bounce to lob him.
For the third, he was unable to block the advancing player after Wootton’s disastrous mis-control.
I suggest that you watch Cooper’s performances for a few more games before coming to such a ‘knee jerk’ conclusion.
You haven't really told me anything that wasn't painfully obvious during the game there davie. For the first, I agree that many keepers would punch the ball, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. Whether it was down to a lack of confidence in his position, his frame being a bit slight still, or whether he just doesn't assert himself fully enough with crosses - my view is that it's a combination of all three. For that goal, there was simply no need to punch it, there was no pressure on him so catching it would have been pretty straightforward. He then just floundered on his line like an outfield player who'd been put in goal after the keeper had been red carded!

For the second goal, I think Mike was far too keen to advance off his line and give Jobi the opportunity to lob him. His positioning was awful - he was in no man's land. I would've preferred to have seen Cooper stay further back, give the defence a chance to recover or put pressure on McAnuff. McAnuff is a good player with bags of experience, and I think Cooper showed naivety in charging at him like that especially given his hesitation at the crucial moment - if you're going to go then go all the way - my view is that Cooper was caught in two minds, he didn't have the speed to close Jobi quickly enough so he should have stayed where he was - in my view McAnuff would have still had plenty to do if Cooper hadn't charged off his line. Would Wootton have closed him down? I'm not sure, but the fact that yet another ball made it over the top suggests that we've got a real frailty there, and I don't know whether Cooper has the ability yet to win these big one-on-ones.

The third, I also think he could have done better, he just doesn't seem to make himself big enough for me - like I said, I think he lacks presence and doesn't impose himself enough. Again, he showed a clear route to goal for the ball and was beaten at his near post after attempting some kind of weird sideways foot lunge at the feet of Johnson. I don't know whether it was his positioning this time, or his stature maybe, it just seemed too easy.

I'm not trying to slate the guy for the sake of it, nor do I want to discourage us investing in youth - perosnally, I just don't think now is the right time to throw him in. I'm also well aware that it's very easy to criticise a keeper when any slight mistake equals a goal. I just haven't seen enough from Cooper to warrant the hype right now, and I would have much rather we'd gone with a more seasoned option like Palmer for our first season in League One - especially when our defence is, as a unit, still very weak.

These are my views, and of course I'd be as delighted as every other Argyle fan to see him progress through the season, I just hope it doesn't cost us too many points in the meantime.
 

Voice of Reason

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A more seasoned pro?

Please tell me that when Palmer arrived you greeted him as a seasoned pro?
Or as is factually correct he was a young lad given his chance to impress?

When is the right time for a young goalkeeper? He is 20 now and we have experienced personnel around him - personally i think its very much now or never, you cannot be a young lad with talent forever, you have to be allowed a chance to shine.

Having kept a clean sheet and being very close (if not winning) the MOM in our first league game, it seems pretty unreasonable to start sharpening the knife a few days later.

There is only one way to improve sadly and its not by watching someone else do it - its by playing and learning, as i've said on another thread this is unlikely to be a purely footballing decision, we are a League 1 club who in the current scheme of things are going to struggle to break even without the financial support of our Chairman (who has already gone above and beyond) - we have 2 very key assets in Cooper and Jephcott, who i hope blossom in green for years to come (in Coopers case blossom in yellow/pink/blue or whatever they wear these days) - but realistically if one or both have good seasons this year, they will attract interest, as a club we will almost certainly have no option but to listen if big fish come looking especially if we are talking proper money (7 figures) - a top half finish and a good showing from Cooper will i'm sure mean someone higher up the food chain will want in - that sadly is the cycle we are now in, i'm sure Lowe and Hallett are aware of this, the chairman has already said no more handouts, we might need a 7 figure sum to balance the books - in which case we need those assets to be shining!
 
Aug 11, 2013
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Agree with a Vibrating Spider when he says :

“I'm not trying to slate the guy for the sake of it, nor do I want to discourage us investing in youth - perosnally, I just don't think now is the right time to throw him in. “

Think he should have had a spell in league two or conference on loan to start with.

Just worried this fragile defence (and I think Lowe should have been ruthless by relegating Wootton and Canavan to squad players with new CB ‘s coming in (and I personally would have let Sawyer go too)) could damage his confidence and ultimate progress.
 
Jul 12, 2016
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Give the lad a chance. Cooper is not the finished article but the players in front of him are more to blame. If the midfield and defence had more steel he would not be exposed as often.
To be realistic this season we will do well to maintain our position in league 1. We are far too inconsistent and have been ever since RL took over .