Stupid Argyle? (re Michael Cooper loan)

[philevs]

Can you give a few examples of the goals that you think should have been avoided, please? It sounds like you think there have been quite a lot.

 

[davie nine]

it has been evident for several weeks that cooper makes several good saves a game and is good with his feet/distribution. he looks technically good as you would expect from a modern academy coached player.

But critically he lacks the physical presence and experience to be commanding in his area to impose himself on teammates and crosses/corners etc. Not his fault. just a fact. This has cost us goals that should have been avoided.

it is great that he came up through the academy but when compared with Palmer for example there is only one winner.

There certainly will be next Saturday if they are selected, even if it goes to penalties, because they will be in opposition.

 

[Biggs]

it has been evident for several weeks that cooper makes several good saves a game and is good with his feet/distribution. he looks technically good as you would expect from a modern academy coached player.

But critically he lacks the physical presence and experience to be commanding in his area to impose himself on teammates and crosses/corners etc. Not his fault. just a fact. This has cost us goals that should have been avoided.

it is great that he came up through the academy but when compared with Palmer for example there is only one winner.

I’m as certain as I can be with my very limited goalkeeping knowledge, that Cooper will play at a higher level than Palmer.

The distribution aspect is huge at the top level, and Cooper is a 10/10 for me in that regard.

The experience will come, but he has the things that you can’t coach easily (same can be said for Jephcott with his positioning and finishing).

Palmer is great, but it’s unfair to compare two goalies at two totally different stages. And when one is ours, and could make us a ton of money or 100s of appearances.

 

[Georgieboy]

Someone earlier touched on Michael Cooper..
I never understood in past couple years why we not lend him out to other League 2 or non league team..would hv done him world of good.
Now we got.. what was always gonna be.. Confidence problem at some point

His devopment been mishandled tbh.

Why are there so many Argyle managers on this format. There were 16 players on duty on Saturday who were played off the park by a better team. So why are you blaming the youngest player on the pitch. This will not do his confidence any good.I have watch the Greens for over 60 years and I’ve seen much older keepers than Mike Cooper who were crap and let Argyle down. So give the lad a chance and if his confidence has been shattered just give a rest.

 

[Brechin Hedge]

perhaps this Cooper issue nicely illustrates the wider debate on what the club's aspirations should realistically be.

Does the club:

1-develop the youth system to bring through and actually play youngsters some of which hopefully will be local lads. For this to work fans and directors need to realise there is a long term strategy in place to be home grown, accept this will likely mean less success (what is success?) but sustainability and not demand instant success with constantly changing managers

or

2-keep requiring directors to pump money in to try to buy instant success through buying/paying players with no guarantees of success, no continuity and living with continual reliance upon outside investment.

Argyle have invariably adopted 2 and slipped from a tier 2/3 club to a tier 3/4 club over the last 50 years. The Exeter Perryman/Tisdale model is 1 and was/is a very successful example of a club living within its means whilst accepting its policy of home grown is the best measure of success.

 

[oldage]

it has been evident for several weeks that cooper makes several good saves a game and is good with his feet/distribution. he looks technically good as you would expect from a modern academy coached player.

But critically he lacks the physical presence and experience to be commanding in his area to impose himself on teammates and crosses/corners etc. Not his fault. just a fact. This has cost us goals that should have been avoided.

it is great that he came up through the academy but when compared with Palmer for example there is only one winner.

It is immaterial .Palmer is at Lincoln and we have Cooper.Last season is now history

 

[Biggs]

perhaps this Cooper issue nicely illustrates the wider debate on what the club's aspirations should realistically be.

Does the club:

1-develop the youth system to bring through and actually play youngsters some of which hopefully will be local lads. For this to work fans and directors need to realise there is a long term strategy in place to be home grown, accept this will likely mean less success (what is success?) but sustainability and not demand instant success with constantly changing managers

or

2-keep requiring directors to pump money in to try to buy instant success through buying/paying players with no guarantees of success, no continuity and living with continual reliance upon outside investment.

Argyle have invariably adopted 2 and slipped from a tier 2/3 club to a tier 3/4 club over the last 50 years. The Exeter Perryman/Tisdale model is 1 and was/is a very successful example of a club living within its means whilst accepting its policy of home grown is the best measure of success.

Yes, 1) is almost always the best strategy for long-term success and it's almost immaterial that Alex Palmer is the better GK than Michael Cooper now.

Again, we all knew that Cooper would make mistakes as a developing young goalkeeper. So it seems a bit pointless to dig him out for it, especially as we're in a good league position with no apparent (touch wood) threat to L1 status this season.

Every player was crap on Saturday.

 

[Quintrell Green]

To me Michael Cooper is an optical Illusion. WIKI reports him as being 6ft 2in, whilst interestingly enough his mentor Rhys Wilmot was 6ft 1in. Nobody every accused Rhys as being physically inadequate as Argyle's keeper over many seasons.
I can recall the days when Bill Short was Argyle's keeper and a full Wales International. If you look at historic team photos you will easily recognise he was not even 6ft tall but he did have an excellent sense of positional play and timing. Whilst vertically challenged, he easily coped with centre forwards like mobile tanks in an era when keepers were less protected by referees.
Give young Cooper to chance to further develop and I feel supporters will recognise his true worth.

 

[Keith Whitfield]

Never saw Bill Short play but my father says that he carried a lot of weight around the middle. One manager tried to slim him down. Dad says that his goalkeeping went downhill after that until he started putting on the pounds again. That weight might be why he was so good against robust 1950s centre-forwards who knew how to shoulder charge a goalie into the back of the net. Fingers crossed that Coops will become more robust as he fills out.

 

[Emu]

Does anyone remember Clive Baker the ex Barnsley and Ipswich keeper from the 80s/90s?

He was a very capable goalkeeper despite being only 5ft 9.

Also played in the Premier League.

 

[Pogleswoody]

Paul Cooper Ipswich was under 6 ft.
446 games for them.
Ipswich Hall of Famer!!

 

[jerryatricjanner]

Another Ipswich colleague of Cooper, Laurie Sivell was only 5 foot 8.

 

[philevs]

I wonder if the typical height of centre backs has gone up, so that keepers need to be taller nowadays? They’ve certainly got more muscle on them than they used to.

 

[Bovey Green lady]

My memory of Geoff Barnsley was that he was only about 5ft 9" .......although that could just be me having a senior moment!

 

[Melbourne Mark]

Never saw Bill Short play but my father says that he carried a lot of weight around the middle. One manager tried to slim him down. Dad says that his goalkeeping went downhill after that until he started putting on the pounds again. That weight might be why he was so good against robust 1950s centre-forwards who knew how to shoulder charge a goalie into the back of the net. Fingers crossed that Coops will become more robust as he fills out.

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