Torquay v Argyle

[monkeywrench]

After 5 games last season Bury had a record of W1 D1 L3.

Fully expecting a slow start to our season although already got ticket for Crewe. :scarf:

Yep spot on. Lowe is right in the deep end here. He must be given time. He is still very much assessing the squad he has inherited. It's going to be superb when it clicks but I think between now and that time we will very much look like a work in progress. Which of course we are.

Yep.

Plus, we need a couple of CBs, another no 10 (Sarc isn't a no 10) and a striker. This may take another transfer window. At least.

 

[mervyn]

Pluses for me yesterday were:

Joe Edwards. Only two stray passes all game, hard to shake off the ball and loads of energy.
Joe Riley. Seemed to me more winger than wing back. Played well with some good crosses.
Tafari Moore. Unrecognisable from last year in his new WB role, so good competition for the RWB.
Lolos. Well deserved his ovation when he came off. When he’s not scoring he makes a real nuisance of himself and willing upset a lot of defences.

Minuses. Too many players making little impact. Sarcevic and Sawyer were steady, the rest looked poorer than most of the Torquay squad, for whom their number 20 was outstanding. Who was he?

 

[monkeywrench]

Pluses for me yesterday were:

Joe Edwards. Only two stray passes all game, hard to shake off the ball and loads of energy.
Joe Riley. Seemed to me more winger than wing back. Played well with some good crosses.
Tafari Moore. Unrecognisable from last year in his new WB role, so good competition for the RWB.
Lolos. Well deserved his ovation when he came off. When he’s not scoring he makes a real nuisance of himself and willing upset a lot of defences.

Minuses. Too many players making little impact. Sarcevic and Sawyer were steady, the rest looked poorer than most of the Torquay squad, for whom their number 20 was outstanding. Who was he?

I've not seen Lolos yet, other than a couple of clips. Looks to be very skilful and has very quick feet. Reports say that he likes to come deep.

My question then, could he be converted into a no 10?

 

[PL2 3DQ]

After 5 games last season Bury had a record of W1 D1 L3.

Fully expecting a slow start to our season although already got ticket for Crewe. :scarf:

Yep spot on. Lowe is right in the deep end here. He must be given time. He is still very much assessing the squad he has inherited. It's going to be superb when it clicks but I think between now and that time we will very much look like a work in progress. Which of course we are.

Yep.

Plus, we need a couple of CBs, another no 10 (Sarc isn't a no 10) and a striker. This may take another transfer window. At least.

From the two games I've seen we haven't played with a number 10, in the traditional sense of a number 10 playing behind the strikers.
The midfield has been a sitting midfielder (Randell or Edwards), two wing backs and an advanced left or right midfielder, forming a diamond with the sitting midfielder.
Conor Grant and Danny Mayor/Klaidi Lolos played these left and right midfield roles in the Parkway game and against Torquay it was Joel Grant and Sarcevic, when Conor Grant came on in the second half he went to the right (his wrong foot) and Sarcevic moved across to the left (his wrong foot).
It's almost an old fashioned inside left/right position and it does leave the team exposed to a counter attack as proven by Torquay.

The system allows for goals to be scored, Bury were the highest scorers in League Two last season, but it also allows the opposition to score goals, Bury conceded the second highest amount of goals out of the top 10 teams in League Two.

I don't think our defenders are as bad as some fans believe plus we have Aimson to come in, it's more about learning the new system and dealing with the acres of space in front of them with only Edwards/Randell offering any cover and the opposition strikers running right at them. Once the system is practiced and played more the three centre-backs will improve.

During the season I would expect our attacks to break down on the edge of the opposition penalty area and within a few seconds our defence is under pressure.
Risk and reward.

 

[Johnny Paradise]

How I see it.
We need a Bradley-esque CB possibly 2 and another striker.

Asumming Lowe knows he's going to play most/all of the players he's brought in, these pre seasons are for him to figure out who else from the rest he wants and where.

He has a specific system he wants to play that has been proven to work at this level, he's just finding out what players best fit in to that system.

We may not be perfectly up to scratch come August but I do believe that we will be a lot closer and after a couple months of the season right where he wants the team to be.

I don't believe we've seen any combination of team in these friendlies that will be the starting 11 Against Crewe. Tbth he's been left with a lot of rubbish and has to pick the best from the bunch. Give him time.

Anyone saying "well look how it turned out after losing to Yeovil" Adams had been the manager for years at that point, knew the players, had most of the players that got us promoted and still didn't beat Yeovil, RL has been here a couple weeks, calm down.

Nailed it

 

[Penmaster]

This is a work in progress. Lowe has a distinct style (I haven't seen any games but based on what I have read and assessments of Bury's style) which will take time to implement, on top of bedding in new signings and seeing if existing players can fit into the new system. Joel Grant is a prime example, he's probably done enough to justify being tried as a RWB but probably isnt sharp enough for up top or good enough on the ball to play centre midfield. So what do you do? Either bomb him out asap or give him time to prove himself in a different role? For me it's the latter - this delays the time it will take to find a balanced and effective team.

I sincerely hope that the green army give RL time. Looking at the thread for predicted finishing position, I fear that being mid table at Christmas may start some grumbles. The issue RL will face is if we are struggling and he is under a bit of pressure, will he have to compromise his vision of how the team plays and go more direct just to start picking up points. For me, if the performances show a game plan and a commitment to a certain type of football then I'm happy to wait till next season to have a proper crack at promotion. I dont think that is a view that a majority of the Green Army will share.

 

[argobenz]

Torquay were sharp, fast and incisive, we weren't :thumbdown:

 

[Cult Of Personality]

Beaten by the manager who should have got the job. Johnson knows how to win in these divisions. Yes Lowe has a great year at Bury but still lacks experience. I am worried for us this season

Not sure I could disagree more strongly :lol:

I just think he is out of his depth. Argyle is a bigger rebuild then what he had to do at Bury .

 

[PL2 3DQ]

Torquay were sharp, fast and incisive, we weren't :thumbdown:

It should be noted Torquay have a settled team buoyed by the confidence of promotion and a title, whereas we have been relegated and attempting to find our way again using three different groups of players - under contract, youngsters and new signings - playing a different system under a new manager/at a new club.

But yes Torquay looked very good, especially up front where they had pace, power, height and movement. They will do well this season.

 

[argobenz]

Torquay were sharp, fast and incisive, we weren't :thumbdown:

It should be noted Torquay have a settled team buoyed by the confidence of promotion and a title, whereas we have been relegated and attempting to find our way again using three different groups of players - under contract, youngsters and new signings - playing a different system under a new manager/at a new club.

But yes Torquay looked very good, especially up front where they had pace, power, height and movement. They will do well this season.

Worrying that a National League team can find so many exciting players who easily outperformed a "Bigger" team.

3 goals, a disallowed cert of a penalty and one ruled out, plus several near misses......….it could have been a massacre!!

Why can't we find these fresh new talents?

 

[rsp4]

As other level headed people have said. This is a long road to recovery and RL deserves time to sort it out.

The squad left behind after GC10, Rubes and Freddie left is woeful And not fit for this division however RL is stuck with them because of poor signings last summer.

I really think this season will be a rebuild and like others have said we are still short in areas where another transfer window or so is needed 1. To bring in better players2. To off load the snow flakes who got us in this mess.

Stay calm everyone, the last management team has left us in a mess on the pitch and it's going to take a while to sort :sad:

 

[NickSS]

Player Ratings: Torquay 3 Plymouth Argyle 1

Sarcevic - 4
We've been beating around the bush slightly with this since Lowe came in, but let's be blunt. Sarcevic does not possess the skills to play in central midfield under him. His passing is not good enough, he doesn't come to receive the ball often enough or well enough. He's best working off the play of others who are good at that, like he did with Carey and Lameiras.

Smith-Brown - 3
From the very start of the match, Smith-Brown really struggled in the left-wing back position. The difference in style and performance between ASB and Riley was huge. Whenever the former received the ball, he half-heartedly jogged towards the opposition full-back, then cut back inside and passed it backwards.

 

[ealinggreen]

No idea who Nickss is but that is exactly how I saw it. Score a little bit generous for Peck but he is young.

 

[arrythewurzel]

I came away thinking the same as I went in. That we are someway off a promotion team. That this will be a year of transition and we won't progress until RL has built his own team.

We have some good players and I can't fault RL's recruitment from what I've seen. The problem is we have a lot of "OK Players" who can do a job without setting the world alight. This squad needs a serious pruning of these OK Players.

I thought the new system and new manager might suit ASB and Moore, but last night I was left deflated as I felt they seem to have the same deficiencies as last year. When Fazdean came on I thought he was head and shoulders above ASB in terms of quality which illustrated ASB's shortcomings even more starkly. Moore doesn't have a quick enough football brain for me and his decision making is poor. He seems lost at times.

Canavan Wootton and Sawyer seem unsuited to playing this system. To my mind, for it to work, you need quick centrebacks with an eye for a pass who can get up and down the pitch - 2 x Zac Vyners. It could easily have been 5 or 6 last night.
Basically we have the defence that got us relegated and who were unable to keep a non league side out. New backline needed.

Nothing I have seen convinces me that Alex Fletcher will ever make the grade.

Luke Jephcott and Michael Peck look very ordinary.

Sarcevic looked knackered after 20 minutes as usual.

Joel Grant isn't a centre forward and I don't see how he fits into this system.

Positives were Joe Edwards - class act. Conor Grant did very well. Klaidi Lolos - this boy is going a long way. Held the ball up well. neat and tidy feet and always an eye for goal. Adam Randell looks promising. Riley also did well.

Can't say the keeper Palmer impressed me either but perhaps too early to judge.

A real positive from this game would be if we made an approach to sign their number 20 Kalvin Lumbombo-Kalala. This guy is a class act. Too good for non league. Best player on pitch last night. Would be a welcome addition to our squad and we should be making Torquay an offer before someone else snaps him up. Only 22 years old too.

 

[Argyle Casual]

Yeah really good report that. Couldn't agree more about Sarcevic. The bloke gives 110% but unfortunately does not have the tools to play the role in which Lowe expects. handy to have on the bench though.