Grandstand/PCC

[jerryatricjanner]

PAFC or not it normally pays to hear both sides of a story before jumping in with both feet.

 

[IJN]

I haven't yet. Just the one so far.

 

[cheshiregreen]

To some extent this seems like a last attempt to save some credibility. Was the HHP scheme ever going to happen even before the British Land scheme was first mooted? JB was having clear problems trying to sell the units and finance what was an unattractive scheme all round. Along came British Land, a developer with a proven track record of delivering projects regularly and on time without having to borrow and use other peoples' money to finance their schemes. Just maybe the council themselves have come to the end of their tether with Mr Brent. As an outsider and very much a layman knowing nothing about the inner workings of such things maybe they have seen the lack of delivery from Mr Brent, even the lack of making a start on other projects and thought enough is enough. Let's not forget the council too played a huge part in saving the club whilst it was in administration and again recently facilitated payment of a large chunk of the balloon payment with another loan. Mr Brent drives a very hard bargain with everyone and is a master of brinkmanship as we have seen with the creditors as he is entitled to as a business man and maybe he is still trying to squeeze even more from the council now in his negotiations and they feel enough is enough. I don't know the answers and I am merely hazarding some sort of guess as an onlooker from some distance. I would not be surprised to see Mr Brent look for some sort of exit strategy now to be honest in the form of a buyer for the club.

MM - what I meant was - I have always heard that our current owner has a lot of influence wih PCC. However, clearly the negotiations here have floundered (or worse) and this is very much a last throw of the dice.

IJN speaks of "war breaking out" - but the Board are saying surely that if Bretonside goes ahead our scheme is at an end. So, it's a spot of brinkmanship, but, what cards do PAFC hold if PCC goes with Bretonside? None that I can think of - we stay with our current antiquated facilities and unless we find alternative funding (at some point in the future), the club flounders in the lower Leagues with a Grandstand that at some point in the coming years will be unsafe for use.

So, does JB still have influence within the Council or has that dwindled away?

Clearly, the Council should be expected to provide a clear direction, but, which scheme will they see as the biggest benefit to Plymouth's population as a whole?

Again, anyone know when the Bretonside scheme gets considered for planning consent?

If it is not soon, presumably then Argyle can do little but tread water awaiting a PCC decision. :sad:

 

[IJN]

I was speaking to someone in the know this morning, a developer within Plymouth.

'It's a shoe in, pre contract agreements have been signed, they'll pass it, no doubt about that'.

Perhaps someone should contact the 'Friends of Bretonside'. There must be such a thing.

 

[pastiesforlife]

Sounds more like an excuse than a club statement.

I've never liked the idea of a cinema in Home Park. Always thought that the place should be associated with sport rather than leisure. A shame that an alternative scheme incorporating the grandstand with purely sporting facilities cannot be developed.

This sounds very much like a nail in the coffin for the cinema and therefore the new stand.

Fearful of yet more troubled times ahead. Shame that the team struggles to have a decent cup run to generate additional income. A promotion just tends to a vicous circle of higher wages. Pretty depressing really.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

It looks like the PCC are caught between British Land and JB/Argyle and should back the scheme they have already given planning permission to.
The statement from the club requests that PCC make a choice and be quick about it. The HHP project was first, has planning permission and should be given priority by PCC.

However, a short term compromise would be for the PCC to fund the build of a new grandstand now and give planning permission to allow the British Land development to go ahead with a scaled down version of HHP development taking place in the long term.

Can a grandstand now, British Land development soon and a smaller HHP built later work for everyone?

It will be interesting to see if and how BL and PCC respond.

 

[IJN]

If that happened, most Argyle fans would be happy I'm sure.

JB wouldn't be, but we'd have to live with that. This is about OUR club, not an individual.

 

[cheshiregreen]

Surprised this thread isn't up to 30 pages yet.

Couple of more facts to add to the debate.

1)Planning permission granted for HHP August 2013. Since when it has to be said, no real physical evidence of progress (ground digging, demolition etc)

2) The HHP website needs updating by Akkeron - Completion summer 2015 still displayed

Sad times for our club yet again it seems as though following on from the Tradium, the World Cup 2018 bid stadium re-build and now the HHP scheme, we are, I fear, as far away as ever from finishing our stadium.

 

[jerryatricjanner]

That sounds like a reasonable compromise from Postey. If it means we get a minimum build stand now with room to increase capacity in the corners or elsewhere easily and viably should it be required in the future then OK. Also if it means that the cinema goes out the window and the rest of the HHP land can be used for top sporting facilities such as a suitable joint home for The Raiders and ice hockey with sufficient corporate facilities for all then great. I would even be happy to see Plymouth Albion included. It must make sense for all the main sporting institutions to be housed close by, sharing a lot of facilities where necessary. Maybe Brickfields could be used for training pitches for both soccer and rugby? If Mr Brent loses out on some of the profits he was hoping to make so be it. You win some and you lose some it's the nature of business.

 

[Leigh Rapson]

Is it possible JB has had a falling out with the council and this is a dig?
Surely if PCC were (as rumoured) to be paying for grandstand the last thing we need is for them to fall out.

 

[IJN]

Agree with all of that Jerry, every word.

Perhaps the Council could flog Brickfields for development as well.

Let's have a centre of sporting excellence at Home Park, I think we'd all be happy with that.

We can also have our 25,000 seater stadium as well.

The job's a good one.

 

[Pafcintheplace]

Final nail in the coffin for the HHP, can't say I'm disappointed.
Things improving on the pitch and the boxed in mini-stand is dead. What's not to like. James on his way soon?

PCC obviously getting tired of JB's inability to deliver, and the statement attempting to find weaknesses in the Bretonside development seems rather desperate - he's had plenty of time to get the diggers in.

 

[Greenskin]

It looks like the PCC are caught between British Land and JB/Argyle and should back the scheme they have already given planning permission to.
The statement from the club requests that PCC make a choice and be quick about it. The HHP project was first, has planning permission and should be given priority by PCC.
However, a short term compromise would be for the PCC to fund the build of a new grandstand now and give planning permission to allow the British Land development to go ahead with a scaled down version of HHP development taking place in the long term.

Can a grandstand now, British Land development soon and a smaller HHP built later work for everyone?

It will be interesting to see if and how BL and PCC respond.

Maybe there were reasons why PCC went to the BL development rather than putting their faith in the HHP proposals, such as James Brent apparently being unable to deliver a single result on the projects that he was involved in. I've been no fan of PCC in the past [I well remember Tudor Evans on the civic centre balcony saying "we will finish the stadium", but in reality taking advantage of a darned good photo opportunity] but it really is stretching credulity to start blaming them and insinuating that, in backing the Bretonside proposals, they could be the instigators of a further chapter of failure in Argyle's history or worse. Were they not instrumental in accommodating James Brent's wishes re the diverse pieces of land at HP and also in providing finance [albeit with some reward for themselves in terms of the purchase of the ground] to enable the club to come out of admin? There was also the matter of the loan provided to assist in the balloon payment in recent times-seems to me as if PCC have been very reasonable in these issues and as has been stated earlier, it will be very interesting to hear their side of the story.

 

[IJN]

Is it possible JB has had a falling out with the council and this is a dig?
Surely if PCC were (as rumoured) to be paying for grandstand the last thing we need is for them to fall out.

I doubt whether anyone as astute as JB would risk that Leigh.

 

[IJN]

he's had plenty of time to get the diggers in.

That would make sense wouldn't it?

Spend (say) £300k in ground works, without the required number of tenants signed up. :facepalm: