Grandstand/PCC

[Andy Holland]

It might be easier with better facilities, sure - but the only difference between now and when we rose up the leagues (and maintained our place in the Championship) before is that there's no-one standing on the Mayflower.

Good managers and players get clubs promoted - ice rinks and cinemas do not.

Where does the money come from that provides the good managers and players?

I seem to remember someone saying that Chesterfield's income from their new stadium dwarved ours, despite being a significantly smaller club and ground. They're now in League One, having been able to fund stellar lower league acquisitions like Gary Roberts and Eoin Doyle while in League 2.

Where did the money come from before?


Does every club that gets promoted have adequate conferencing facilities?

 

[IJN]

Perhaps I should have said bottom two leagues.

The chances of us getting to the Championship are slim in my eyes, and of staying there, with these facilities, almost impossible.

You can believe it if you want, I certainly won't.

The chances of staying in the Championship for long with a17,000 capacity stadium are also very slim, Ian.

I agree it makes it harder Rich. Perhaps IF PCC are going to build us one, they can insist on a 25,000 ground and make PAFC pay more rent. I wouldn't have any problem with that, nor would any other Argyle fan, would they?

When we'd fill it is another debate.

 

[IJN]

It might be easier with better facilities, sure - but the only difference between now and when we rose up the leagues (and maintained our place in the Championship) before is that there's no-one standing on the Mayflower.

Good managers and players get clubs promoted - ice rinks and cinemas do not.

Where does the money come from that provides the good managers and players?

I seem to remember someone saying that Chesterfield's income from their new stadium dwarved ours, despite being a significantly smaller club and ground. They're now in League One, having been able to fund stellar lower league acquisitions like Gary Roberts and Eoin Doyle while in League 2.

Where did the money come from before?


Does every club that gets promoted have adequate conferencing facilities?

It's a fair question, but a more relevant one would be 'does every club who gets promoted and stays there have adequate conferencing facilities'.

Yeovil haven't. :lol:

 

[Quintrell Green]

If HHP had been good enough then tenants would be signed up and building would have started by now. Ultimately Bretonside is being driven by people who know what they are doing and HPP is seeming rudderless by comparison. The whole thing, especially the ministand, was a balls up from the start.

I agree with a fair few of the points raised in the PAFC statement, but also feel that the statements reads like one long excuse. Ultimately PCC are not "shafting" Argyle, their is no need for "war to break out" (ffs boys), the council are doing their job comparing all plans on their merits and the likelihood of delivering them. HHP has been a disaster from day 1.

Two thoughts cross my mind.

British Land plc are one of the biggest UK property investment companies and are not easily dissuaded from their targets. They have sufficient cash resources to finance an Appeal should the PCC decision go against them. A Gov. Planning Inspector would be shipped in from 'up country' with absolutely no goodwill nor feeling towards Plymouth Argyle F C. If that position came to pass I can see the Bretonside application being granted at Appeal with British Land claiming expenses against PCC for their costs relating to delays and the employment of Planning QCs etc. If PCC turn aside BL's application would they be prepared to instruct top QCs to defend their Members' decision. That would be a test of their mettle.

Secondly, the weakness in the HHP project attracting 'high street' tenants in a poor commercial investment market is its' lack of visual profile, except on match days. Fast food companies, restauranteurs and hotels like to see their company advertising signs/logos with a main street profile. This does not quite happen at HHP unless some specific arrangement is made on Outland Road to catch passing motorists' eyes. Even then, I cannot see the residents opposite the car park welcoming bright advertising lights into their front windows so they would rightly object.

The more I see the HHP issue being played out, I can only see a new grandstand forthcoming if PCC come forward with a funding package, but whether this would help provide an additional trading income stream to the Club to supplement the footballing activity, I am not so sure.

 

[Brixton 'ill Pilgrim]

It might be easier with better facilities, sure - but the only difference between now and when we rose up the leagues (and maintained our place in the Championship) before is that there's no-one standing on the Mayflower.

Good managers and players get clubs promoted - ice rinks and cinemas do not.

Where does the money come from that provides the good managers and players?

I seem to remember someone saying that Chesterfield's income from their new stadium dwarved ours, despite being a significantly smaller club and ground. They're now in League One, having been able to fund stellar lower league acquisitions like Gary Roberts and Eoin Doyle while in League 2.

Where did the money come from before?


Does every club that gets promoted have adequate conferencing facilities?

In the 1990s Argyle used to get bigger crowds than Brighton, Cardiff, Swansea, Reading and Hull. Those clubs are now in a different universe to us, while even the likes of Bournemouth and Doncaster are at a higher level.

What do all these clubs have in common? In 20 years time, when we're still, in all probability, yo-yoing around the lower leagues it will seem so blindingly obvious how they moved up a gear and we didn't

 

[Andy Holland]

You've picked out the examples that fit your argument - there's just as many that don't.

As a club we're hiding behind the lack of a new grandstand, using it as an excuse for ongoing mediocrity. Suck it up, and get on with it.


These HHP plans will never - ever - happen.


Other ones might, but it's difficult to see it in the near future.

 

[Topboy]

FWIW, my thoughts echo a few on here. JB has had the planning permission granted and the time (a decent years head start) over any Bretonside development to make serious inroads into the HHP development.

He hasn't (for whatever reason / reasons) and the grass has grown under his feet.

God knows Bretonside needs serious redevelopment ( I shall somehow miss the smell of stale urine....!) and with it's central city centre location, it makes an obvious choice for many national chains of hotels, bars, restaurants, shops, etc, to be interested.

The HHP development has wandered, nay meandered, on without the finance or the ultimately achievable goal for too long. He who hesitates is lost Rodney.

The long and short of it is that the Bretonside development will happen. It's just a case of what we as Argyle fans can get out of the arse end of it all.

Scraps and crumbs or a shiny new council financed grandstand?

 

[esmer]

Perhaps I should have said bottom two leagues.

The chances of us getting to the Championship are slim in my eyes, and of staying there, with these facilities, almost impossible.

You can believe it if you want, I certainly won't.

The chances of staying in the Championship for long with a17,000 capacity stadium are also very slim, Ian.

I agree it makes it harder Rich. Perhaps IF PCC are going to build us one, they can insist on a 25,000 ground and make PAFC pay more rent. I wouldn't have any problem with that, nor would any other Argyle fan, would they?

When we'd fill it is another debate.

We're all agreed on that, Ian.

 

[The Doctor]

Perhaps the Council could flog Brickfields for development as well.

Or perhaps not for development...

Surely I am not the only person who can think of a major Plymouth organisation that lacks the kind of sporting facilities that almost every single one of its competitors has access to and which, if it had such facilities, could make itself significantly more attractive to a good proportion of its 'customers'. Whether that organisation has, or can borrow, the money to fund such an acquisition is another question.

 

[cheshiregreen]

It might be easier with better facilities, sure - but the only difference between now and when we rose up the leagues (and maintained our place in the Championship) before is that there's no-one standing on the Mayflower.

Good managers and players get clubs promoted - ice rinks and cinemas do not.

Where does the money come from that provides the good managers and players?

I seem to remember someone saying that Chesterfield's income from their new stadium dwarved ours, despite being a significantly smaller club and ground. They're now in League One, having been able to fund stellar lower league acquisitions like Gary Roberts and Eoin Doyle while in League 2.

Where did the money come from before?


Does every club that gets promoted have adequate conferencing facilities?

In the 1990s Argyle used to get bigger crowds than Brighton, Cardiff, Swansea, Reading and Hull. Those clubs are now in a different universe to us, while even the likes of Bournemouth and Doncaster are at a higher level.

What do all these clubs have in common? In 20 years time, when we're still, in all probability, yo-yoing around the lower leagues it will seem so blindingly obvious how they moved up a gear and we didn't

And to add Bournemouth and Brentford are both in the play-off spots in the Championship. Some other facts.

Dean Court has a capacity of 12,000. Bournemouth entered administration in 2008 and avoided losing League status only in the penultimate game of 2008/09. They have only been promoted to the second tier twice in their history. In the Championship last season their home average was 9,100.

Brentford - Griffin Park capacity 12,300. In their promotion winning season from League 1 (13/14) they averaged 7,700.

 

[Trev501]

It would be interesting to hear more about this paragraph:

A leisure scheme at HHP – smaller than that which has already received planning permission but generating sufficient monies to fund the new grandstand – has received assurances of funding from one of the largest institutions in the UK.

Like you Bob I was intrigued by this statement. I'm surprised no-one has picked up on it yet.

 

[StevePAFC]

It's our own fault for not having a plan b.

 

[IJN]

Perhaps the Council could flog Brickfields for development as well.

Or perhaps not for development...

Surely I am not the only person who can think of a major Plymouth organisation that lacks the kind of sporting facilities that almost every single one of its competitors has access to and which, if it had such facilities, could make itself significantly more attractive to a good proportion of its 'customers'. Whether that organisation has, or can borrow, the money to fund such an acquisition is another question.

You're quite Tim, I simply went for the easy and doable no question asked option.

 

[cheshiregreen]

It would be interesting to hear more about this paragraph:

A leisure scheme at HHP – smaller than that which has already received planning permission but generating sufficient monies to fund the new grandstand – has received assurances of funding from one of the largest institutions in the UK.

Like you Bob I was intrigued by this statement. I'm surprised no-one has picked up on it yet.

If this is true and I am reading it properly, what has stopped work starting?

 

[Baby Face Johnson]

It would be interesting to hear more about this paragraph:

A leisure scheme at HHP – smaller than that which has already received planning permission but generating sufficient monies to fund the new grandstand – has received assurances of funding from one of the largest institutions in the UK.

Like you Bob I was intrigued by this statement. I'm surprised no-one has picked up on it yet.

If this is true and I am reading it properly, what has stopped work starting?

Perhaps someone from the board ought to read through the statement again :crazy:

There is no credible alternative to deliver the grandstand. PAFC has been working with a city institution to find an alternative funding solution not requiring the immediate development of Higher Home Park. Although talks continue, they have not been successful to date and there is no assurance that they will be successful in the future.