Passion without Violence

[Ollieargyle9]

I've been anything like the rucus underneath block 15 at half time before. From what I witnessed, somebody let off a smoke bomb so the police intervened (which is understandable) however there actions from that point onwards were over-zealous and disproportionate. They then decided to separate two groups of Argyle fans who were co-existing (contrary to the Superintendent's comments claiming it was preventing 'infighting'). As IJN has stated, there are videos out there to watch and you can see there was no violence between Argyle fans prior. Then the surge from the kiosk began as people wanted to return to their seats, fancy blocking the exits? I think the police dealt with the pushing and shoving well and humanely. However, it all went pear-shaped when a policeman decided to punch a fan (you can see it on one of the videos) and obviously people are going to react. That's when punched start being thrown and the use of truncheons were exercised. Somebody questioned whether the police should stand there and take it but, equally, why should fans when the level of force being exerted is unnecessary? Who is going to watch their mate undeservedly endure punishment and it not evoke a response?

I know people on this thread have disagreed with my views in the past but can anybody argue that the dangers of pushing and shoving a line of police outweigh somebody being smashed across the head with a truncheon? Somebody I know had to go to Derriford due to head injuries but will that be reported? Of course it won't yet 5 policeman getting injured will. The riot police were the ones inciting the violence, instead of targeting those those throwing bottles and swinging punches, they were ejecting just about anybody who was simply there at the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not saying some fans' actions should not be punishable but I just hope some fairness will emerge from all of this. I sincerely hope there'll be an investigation due to the number of complaints, let's just hope that the club review the CCTV available to them to scrutinise the police's actions just as they will the fan's.

Bit of police banter that's all that would have been, little slap nothing more, seriously these wannabe football hoolis have no sense of humour do they. Truncheons? Just banter, a solid bit of wood, banter mate! We all love a bit of banter. Banter!

 

[L G]

They'll be back again when Luton come to Home Park.
We all know it.

 

[Wozzer]

I've been anything like the rucus underneath block 15 at half time before. From what I witnessed, somebody let off a smoke bomb so the police intervened (which is understandable) however there actions from that point onwards were over-zealous and disproportionate. They then decided to separate two groups of Argyle fans who were co-existing (contrary to the Superintendent's comments claiming it was preventing 'infighting'). As IJN has stated, there are videos out there to watch and you can see there was no violence between Argyle fans prior. Then the surge from the kiosk began as people wanted to return to their seats, fancy blocking the exits? I think the police dealt with the pushing and shoving well and humanely. However, it all went pear-shaped when a policeman decided to punch a fan (you can see it on one of the videos) and obviously people are going to react. That's when punched start being thrown and the use of truncheons were exercised. Somebody questioned whether the police should stand there and take it but, equally, why should fans when the level of force being exerted is unnecessary? Who is going to watch their mate undeservedly endure punishment and it not evoke a response?

I know people on this thread have disagreed with my views in the past but can anybody argue that the dangers of pushing and shoving a line of police outweigh somebody being smashed across the head with a truncheon? Somebody I know had to go to Derriford due to head injuries but will that be reported? Of course it won't yet 5 policeman getting injured will. The riot police were the ones inciting the violence, instead of targeting those those throwing bottles and swinging punches, they were ejecting just about anybody who was simply there at the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not saying some fans' actions should not be punishable but I just hope some fairness will emerge from all of this. I sincerely hope there'll be an investigation due to the number of complaints, let's just hope that the club review the CCTV available to them to scrutinise the police's actions just as they will the fan's.

Sorry but what a load of bo**ocks.

If you watch the video carefully the 2 mobs surrounded the Police, punches were thrown by the chavs. I for one applaud the Police and their restraint.

 

[Herts Green]

It is such a shame that we have these middle aged, stone island wearing morons associated with the club. My wife and I went to Mansfield away last season when a load of them decided to fight the police in the stand. There was absolutely no blame directed towards the stewards or police - they did nothing wrong. These idiots rolled into the ground about 15 mins after kick off, paid no attention to the game and just shouted abuse at the opposition fans. Shame the police couldn't give them a proper hiding. Unfortunately my wife hasn't felt like attending an Argyle game since.......

 

[Fergy]

I've been anything like the rucus underneath block 15 at half time before. From what I witnessed, somebody let off a smoke bomb so the police intervened (which is understandable) however there actions from that point onwards were over-zealous and disproportionate. They then decided to separate two groups of Argyle fans who were co-existing (contrary to the Superintendent's comments claiming it was preventing 'infighting'). As IJN has stated, there are videos out there to watch and you can see there was no violence between Argyle fans prior. Then the surge from the kiosk began as people wanted to return to their seats, fancy blocking the exits? I think the police dealt with the pushing and shoving well and humanely. However, it all went pear-shaped when a policeman decided to punch a fan (you can see it on one of the videos) and obviously people are going to react. That's when punched start being thrown and the use of truncheons were exercised. Somebody questioned whether the police should stand there and take it but, equally, why should fans when the level of force being exerted is unnecessary? Who is going to watch their mate undeservedly endure punishment and it not evoke a response?

I know people on this thread have disagreed with my views in the past but can anybody argue that the dangers of pushing and shoving a line of police outweigh somebody being smashed across the head with a truncheon? Somebody I know had to go to Derriford due to head injuries but will that be reported? Of course it won't yet 5 policeman getting injured will. The riot police were the ones inciting the violence, instead of targeting those those throwing bottles and swinging punches, they were ejecting just about anybody who was simply there at the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not saying some fans' actions should not be punishable but I just hope some fairness will emerge from all of this. I sincerely hope there'll be an investigation due to the number of complaints, let's just hope that the club review the CCTV available to them to scrutinise the police's actions just as they will the fan's.

Sorry but what a load of bo**ocks.

If you watch the video carefully the 2 mobs surrounded the Police, punches were thrown by the chavs. I for one applaud the Police and their restraint.

Could you specify which part is bo**ocks in your view?

The two mobs didn't surround the police, the police caused the divide. police swung for the fans first (wouldn't call it a punch) and that's when everybody started steaming. Like I said, the police restrained well with the surges but, in my eyes, not by swiping fans and thus inciting the disorder. And that isn't ALL of the police, just one or two officers, but that's all it needs to spark chaos.

 

[Clarke B]

Just watched that video on youtube. Deary me.

Further evidence that inbreeding is still well and truly alive in certain families.

 

[ZZZZMarker12]

Fergy has the situation spot on. And although a good insight, that video is only a snippet of what actually went on. Neither side has come out with any credit.

 

[Ollieargyle9]

It's hard to make any sort of judgements on the videos anyway, unless you were there it's simpy the aftermath of something happening. The problem is to those looking on, to those hearing about police officers getting injured it sends out the wrong sort of message to our potential younger fans' parents.

It doesn't matter who started it, who threw the first punch or how rough the police were or were not. There was trouble, it was reported in the local press and once again Argyle get a bad reputation as a result. Sadly this sort of thing won't go away in a hurry and the more often it is reported the more local green street wannabes come along for their piece of the action in place of an ever growing number of kids (our future fanbase) whose parents refuse to let them go to such an unsavoury football match, just look at the reaction this game got from the Exeter fans. We laugh at their poor showing numbers wise but they said it all along, they wouldn't go because they knew there would be trouble that they wanted no involvement in.

The sad thing is, 20 or so games a season we are a respectable family oriented club but come Exeter, come Rovers, come Millwall we aren't and you have to ask yourself why that is. I have my own views on why as do others but it's been done on here so many times I needn't bother repeating myself.

 

[Cult Of Personality]

The question needs to be asked

Why are people not searched on the way in . Its it a budget thing is James Brent penny pinching on security or is the security firm not good enough . I think a bit of both the way the stewards treat fans like dirt.

Next time even tho it takes a little longer making sure no more smoke bombs bangers and other stuff gets into the ground.

This may sound dramatic but after the Paris attacks can we really take the risk of not checking people anymore ????

 

[Bubba]

Oddly COP I was searched on my way into the ground and I commented that it's the first time in 25 years I had been (searched) at a home game!

As someone said earlier nobody can possibly come out of this with any credit. I do think the suggestion of infighting is a complete crock but it was too late and dare I say it battle lines had been drawn.

 

[memory man]

Would a 1200 kick-off have made a difference? It is an inconvenience for those who simply go out for a football match but for those who see it as more of a social occasion would have three hours less to party.

 

[Cult Of Personality]

Would a 1200 kick-off have made a difference? It is an inconvenience for those who simply go out for a football match but for those who see it as more of a social occasion would have three hours less to party.

Yeah the 1200 kick offs have seemed to be a bit more calmer in that sense.

 

[CornishPaul]

Underneath the stands is a nightmare when there are big crowds. Next time we have big crowds I suggest they don't open the food outlets and certainly don't sell alcohol. If there's nothing to go down under the stands for than they won't go there. If the club worry about loosing revenue from thar then add 2 quid on every ticket. Job done.

 

[Andy in Peverell]

Fergy has the situation spot on. And although a good insight, that video is only a snippet of what actually went on. Neither side has come out with any credit.

Absolutely spot on.

A lot of people who weren't there commenting on a video that only shows part of the whole incident.

Tin hat on!!!!

Since the 2nd half of last season someone or a group has sent off smoke bombs/thunder flashes on the concoarse under block 14/15. It must of happened half a dozen times and is always when the crowd is bigger than normal.
I'm no shrinking violet but I find the whole thing annoying, pointless and unnecessary.
Despite cctv, stewards and police always being around no one has been ID'd it seems and predictabley it happened again.
Suddenly 20/30 baton wielding police burst in from outside onto a packed concoarse and immediately shove their way in between the fans. People who were queuing for for drinks, people who were going for a pee, people who were just stood there suddenly were getting shoved back into others who couldn't or wouldn't move.
The outcome is the chaotic scenes that can be seen on YouTube.
I'm pretty sure a hell of a lot of those involved went down at halftime with no intention of anything other than sinking a pint or having a pee but reacted to the chaos unfolding as the red mist descended.A non Argyle supporting workmate came for the 1st time and was amazed by the police response. He saw 1 lad get whacked with a baton for simply trying to help up a copper who had fallen over and said the police were crazy.
Surely if they want to arrest the pyro idiots then send in a few plain clothes coppers and mingle with the suspects at half time

There's blame here on BOTH sides.
The planks that set off pyrotechnics( especially after the Paris stadium) are at the root cause of it all and probably enjoyed every second of it but without the aggressive and disproportionate and indiscriminate police response it all simply ends as is done half a dozen times before, as a totally unwanted nuisance

In my time The Lyndhurst has always been home to the more problematic Argyle support and there's no doubt that a lot revelled in the mayhem but to put it bluntly if the police hadn't steamed in to a packed concourse batons raised it would never of escalated to the levels it did.

I'm not defending fans or having a pop at the police. It's just as I saw it

 

[Green 1886]

Andy in peverall has it pretty much spot on.

There have been bangers let off previously (I'm not saying this is good) but the situation didn't escalate any further. Searches should have taken place and the game should have kicked off at 12:30.

If you're basing opinion on that video alone it really doesn't tell the full story.

The police who steemed in inflamed a tense situation (remember we'd just gone 2-0 down, the kiosk had now closed on dozens of queuing punters) and they were far too heavey handed. I assume not all of these officers were local? If they were then they should have used a bit more common sense. There was no in fighting between fans, people like me, who've been going for over 25 years and have never been involved in any kind of trouble, just went for a beer, a toilet break and a natter were caught up in a situation where you couldn't get back your seat, you were jammed in from the back, and being pushed, punched and whacked from the front by police. It was totally over the top and unavoidable. Innocent people were ejected and hit and its little wonder that people retaliated.

Lessons should be learnt that 3pm kick offs should be avoided, and people should be thoroughly searched upon entry as you would be attending any music event or international match.