Ben Reeves | Page 4 | PASOTI
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Ben Reeves

davie nine

R.I.P
Jan 23, 2015
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Plympton
Pottypilgrim":3kqmvgo0 said:
jerryatricjanner":3kqmvgo0 said:
It's surprising how some are so reluctant to embrace change, new innovatives and progress in the game and like to hark back to the distant past when in their minds things were so much better.
Footballers these days are born with no more talent than they were in the 1960s but playing standards have improved noticeably. Of course they benefit from vastly superior pitches to play on, lighter balls, boots etc but also from great strides that have been made in diet, sports science and training regimes amongst other things that have made them generally bigger, stronger and faster athletes just as in any sport in the past 60 years. Skilful players also get much more protection from referees now and more opportunity to express their talent.Also in recent years since the Bosman ruling players have so much more power. No manager would get away with some of the verbal abuse, throwing of tea cups in the dressing room and strict discipline that the old school managers like Cullis, Nicholson, Clough and Saunders used to name just a few. They have to manage very differently in this day and age whether you feel that is a good or a bad thing.
Likewise in very recent years data analysis is another tool that clubs are using to gain a slight edge. It isn't fool proof of course but it is something else to help try and gain a small advantage. It surprises me to hear people dismissing it out of hand when it is relatively new and when in all honesty they know very little about it.
I had a chat one day with Newcastle's 1st team data man Billy Coulston, a Tavistock lad who played in the youth ranks at Argyle. It was extremely interesting and enlightning and helped me as someone with a bit of a dinosaur outlook see things differently and with a much more open mind.

The significant difference for Argyle is our location. Data analytics may well be helpful for clubs less remote but I don't believe it works for us.

Say Ryan Lowe consults a computer and it gives him a list of candidates that meet his parameters for a certain position. He obviously wants the one at the top of the list but unfortunately the guy doesnt want to move down here so Lowe looks at the next one. The thing is, he finds he gets the same response from everyone else so we end up with someone toward the bottom of the list unless of course we get the very big cheque book out. Or we get someone with a history of injuries, or an untried youngster, or a veteran looking for a final pay check.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing to do with not embracing change. I would much rather we used the time and money in a much better way and accept it doesn't work for us. Lowe himself has said that they got the recruitment badly wrong. I suggest that is because they place too much reliance on a useless tool. Not all change is good and/or necessary. The chairman has said he is happy with people when they are underperforming as long as they can show that they're learning. Hopefully Lowe will ditch data analytics as that would go a long way to showing me that he's learning.
You seem to be suggesting that we accept our position as a League 1/2 ‘yoyo’ club because, due to our location, we will always end up with ‘someone with a history of injuries, untried youngsters or veterans looking for a final pay check’.
What is your system for recruiting a team that is capable of challenging for promotion to the Championship and avoiding recruiting the 3 categories that you describe?
 

leeroy221

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May 10, 2015
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Some people need to get a grip and stop being so sensitive. This is not a Lowe bashing forum, its a discussion/debate, stop thinking its just a ploy to bash Lowe.
Anyway, as said, some signings just dont work out, no perticular reason as to why, Goodwillie was mentioned earlier but that was more as we didnt play him with a partner.
I also refer to the greatest manager ever, even he signed duds, Kleberson anyone? Tiabi, the worst GK ever, Bebe anyone? Later signings in Man U's hiatory which should have worked, Zaha, Falcao. Not every signing will work, even if everything points to the fact it should.
 
Feb 8, 2005
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Our data analysis was not fully up and running before the start of last season, so that cannot be blamed for the problems we subsequently had with the playing staff that we recruited

It is fully up and running now and should be able to give us the data analysis we need to assist with the recruitment of new players from here on in. I believe that it is already in use and has been in use for a considerable time in readiness for our Summer recruitment of players.
 
Mar 24, 2019
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Pottypilgrim":19cfpjvf said:
The significant difference for Argyle is our location. Data analytics may well be helpful for clubs less remote but I don't believe it works for us.

Say Ryan Lowe consults a computer and it gives him a list of candidates that meet his parameters for a certain position. He obviously wants the one at the top of the list but unfortunately the guy doesnt want to move down here so Lowe looks at the next one. The thing is, he finds he gets the same response from everyone else so we end up with someone toward the bottom of the list unless of course we get the very big cheque book out. Or we get someone with a history of injuries, or an untried youngster, or a veteran looking for a final pay check.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing to do with not embracing change. I would much rather we used the time and money in a much better way and accept it doesn't work for us. Lowe himself has said that they got the recruitment badly wrong. I suggest that is because they place too much reliance on a useless tool. Not all change is good and/or necessary. The chairman has said he is happy with people when they are underperforming as long as they can show that they're learning. Hopefully Lowe will ditch data analytics as that would go a long way to showing me that he's learning.
Simon hallett is the driving force behind data analytics....he said it was a requirement for the manager to be on board with it when he was conducting interviews......Lowe has said he knew little about it until the chairman gave him a book on the subject and that he was now on board....I don’t fully understand it but believe the majority of clubs now use it
 
Mar 15, 2007
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Plymouth
Pottypilgrim":o6fuwh0e said:
The significant difference for Argyle is our location. Data analytics may well be helpful for clubs less remote but I don't believe it works for us.

Say Ryan Lowe consults a computer and it gives him a list of candidates that meet his parameters for a certain position. He obviously wants the one at the top of the list but unfortunately the guy doesnt want to move down here so Lowe looks at the next one. The thing is, he finds he gets the same response from everyone else so we end up with someone toward the bottom of the list unless of course we get the very big cheque book out. Or we get someone with a history of injuries, or an untried youngster, or a veteran looking for a final pay check.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing to do with not embracing change. I would much rather we used the time and money in a much better way and accept it doesn't work for us. Lowe himself has said that they got the recruitment badly wrong. I suggest that is because they place too much reliance on a useless tool. Not all change is good and/or necessary. The chairman has said he is happy with people when they are underperforming as long as they can show that they're learning. Hopefully Lowe will ditch data analytics as that would go a long way to showing me that he's learning.

Hang on, how is assessing targets based on data and assessing them by scouting going to make a difference on whether they want to move to Plymouth? Until we talk to agents we have no idea of the players desire to move, so how the list of targets is built is irrelevant.

More to the point, none of us know when the data was first utilised and which signings were data driven, so how can you possibly draw the conclusion it’s useless?
 

jerryatricjanner

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My thoughts too Nobby. Far too soon to be making judgements like that.
 
Apr 20, 2008
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Plymouth
Pottypilgrim":1mfftryo said:
Cobi Budge":1mfftryo said:
Every single club in the EFL will currently be releasing players whom they signed but it just hasn’t quite worked out, for a multitude of reasons. That’s football. It’s happened under Lowe, it happened under Adams (to a much greater extent), it happened under Sheridan and every other manager we’ve ever had.

This just seems like another pointless bit of Lowe bashing to me.

As far as I'm aware, all those other managers didn't have access to the much lauded data analytics. So, as Lowe is experiencing the same sort of problems that all our other managers have experienced when it comes to recruitment, I guess what you're saying is that its pointless having the data analytics :think:

If thats the case, then I for one agree with you. In fact, I've been saying for ages that data analytics is a waste of time and money for a team like ours in the location we are in. I have yet to see how it has benefited the team in one way. I've seen how its cost us though.
Adams used analytics just as much as Lowe is now - he just didn't shout about it as much.

Sheridan didn't give a flying one about that side of things - look how well he's done recently.
 
Jul 12, 2016
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Pottypilgrim":x9uufc9d said:
The significant difference for Argyle is our location. Data analytics may well be helpful for clubs less remote but I don't believe it works for us.

Say Ryan Lowe consults a computer and it gives him a list of candidates that meet his parameters for a certain position. He obviously wants the one at the top of the list but unfortunately the guy doesnt want to move down here so Lowe looks at the next one. The thing is, he finds he gets the same response from everyone else so we end up with someone toward the bottom of the list unless of course we get the very big cheque book out. Or we get someone with a history of injuries, or an untried youngster, or a veteran looking for a final pay check.

As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing to do with not embracing change. I would much rather we used the time and money in a much better way and accept it doesn't work for us. Lowe himself has said that they got the recruitment badly wrong. I suggest that is because they place too much reliance on a useless tool. Not all change is good and/or necessary. The chairman has said he is happy with people when they are underperforming as long as they can show that they're learning. Hopefully Lowe will ditch data analytics as that would go a long way to showing me that he's learning.
:clap:
 
Jul 12, 2016
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jimsing":1flmtuqm said:
Our data analysis was not fully up and running before the start of last season, so that cannot be blamed for the problems we subsequently had with the playing staff that we recruited

It is fully up and running now and should be able to give us the data analysis we need to assist with the recruitment of new players from here on in. I believe that it is already in use and has been in use for a considerable time in readiness for our Summer recruitment of players.
I'm yet to be convinced but let's see what happens during the close season.
 

jerryatricjanner

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Whether you prove to be right or wrong in the fullness of time Oldage you seem to have a very closed mind on so many issues. I have just read another interesting article about Leicester City's Scottish first team analyst. Brendan Rodgers read some blogs the then 19 year old had posted on a German football website whilst manager at Celtic. He invited him to Celtic Park and recruited him and then when taking over at Leicester brought him down from Scotland where the now 24 year old is apparently just one of the cogs that help make up a successful backroom team at the club. Without wishing to sound patronising sometimes we need to open our minds just a little before dismissing things out of hand.
 
May 8, 2011
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jimsing":1b9gdbub said:
Our data analysis was not fully up and running before the start of last season, so that cannot be blamed for the problems we subsequently had with the playing staff that we recruited

It is fully up and running now and should be able to give us the data analysis we need to assist with the recruitment of new players from here on in. I believe that it is already in use and has been in use for a considerable time in readiness for our Summer recruitment of players.

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2020/april/ ... cruitment/

This article from April 2020 suggests it was fully up and running
 

Mark Pedlar

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Jul 28, 2010
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HC Green":2g7u0qhr said:
jimsing":2g7u0qhr said:
Our data analysis was not fully up and running before the start of last season, so that cannot be blamed for the problems we subsequently had with the playing staff that we recruited

It is fully up and running now and should be able to give us the data analysis we need to assist with the recruitment of new players from here on in. I believe that it is already in use and has been in use for a considerable time in readiness for our Summer recruitment of players.

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2020/april/ ... cruitment/

This article from April 2020 suggests it was fully up and running

Perhaps you should read the article HC it clearly sets out that the use of analytical data is just one tool in the box. Your crusade is very, very dull. The Chairman has said that we had to operate in a restricted way last year that may, or may not, have included the recruitment of players that, given a free hand, we would never have recruited. We are never going to know.
 

mutley marvel

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Feb 13, 2021
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So if he manages to recruit the players at the top of his wish list that tick all the boxes in respect of data analytics - will he & his entourage think we have hit the jackpot- problem solved or will they be thinking we need to improve our coaching , tactics, strategy to fully utilise the players at our disposal & give us that so called edge

RL can sign x amount of players but surely he now realises square pegs round holes do not work & he & his team need to reevaluate their training & coaching methods to make us more competitive next season

If he is not willing address this seasons issues & learn from it then no amount of upgraded players will possibly change the outcome of next season

RL has spoken a lot about how the season ended & what they have learnt from it- but talk is cheap & maybe he is just saying what he thinks we need to hear with regard to player recruitment

It will be interesting to see who walks through the door over the next couple of weeks- it will also be interesting to see come the start of next season whether RL has adapted is way of thinking to make us more competitive

Only time will tell :think:
 
Mar 21, 2010
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Plymouth
HC Green":2gdhpzoj said:
jimsing":2gdhpzoj said:
Our data analysis was not fully up and running before the start of last season, so that cannot be blamed for the problems we subsequently had with the playing staff that we recruited

It is fully up and running now and should be able to give us the data analysis we need to assist with the recruitment of new players from here on in. I believe that it is already in use and has been in use for a considerable time in readiness for our Summer recruitment of players.

https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2020/april/ ... cruitment/

This article from April 2020 suggests it was fully up and running


We are at the start of our journey, really and developing our model. Doesn't suggest fully up and running to me , suggests in the early stages of using the system .
 
Apr 20, 2008
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Plymouth
jerryatricjanner":3gv9o6w7 said:
Whether you prove to be right or wrong in the fullness of time Oldage you seem to have a very closed mind on so many issues. I have just read another interesting article about Leicester City's Scottish first team analyst. Brendan Rodgers read some blogs the then 19 year old had posted on a German football website whilst manager at Celtic. He invited him to Celtic Park and recruited him and then when taking over at Leicester brought him down from Scotland where the now 24 year old is apparently just one of the cogs that help make up a successful backroom team at the club. Without wishing to sound patronising sometimes we need to open our minds just a little before dismissing things out of hand.
Leicester also used analysts / analytics heavily the year they won the title.

Can I just re-iterate as well to all the doubters - analytics is everywhere in the professional game now. This idea that almost every other club has some bloke as a chief scout and nothing else couldn't be further from the truth.

Combining the two facts of "Argyle use analytics" and "Argyle have done badly this season" is a huge case of putting 2 and 2 together and making 5. Maybe we have capacity to improve the analytics side of things, either by process or personnel, I don't know. But this idea that we should scrap the scheme all together and go back to the old method because we've had one bad season is nonsense. If it isn't worth doing, why is almost every professional club doing it?