Canavan joins Bradford

[jimsing]

Be fair, Oldage, things were going to plan until we hit that string of defeats. Had our form continued I doubt that we would be thinking about our defence, although it would have needed to be improved upon in order to improve upon our mid-table position.

That has now come to a head and we have the opportunity to improve if we can.
January isn't the best month to get incomings. We shall see.

I am being fair. No way is our defence good enough for league 1 the concerns were there last season. Incidentally we are in the bottom half of the table.

The season is still ongoing, Oldage, too soon to predict how it will pan out. Where we are now bears no resemblance to where we could end up.

We were tied with defenders still under contract from last season. If we stay in Div 1 then they will be gone at season's end when their contract runs out.

With Canavan going, it gives us the opportunity to get a commanding centre half in his place, however whether we will find one willing to come down to Devon, and whether he can play as a three will be the questions to be answered. There may not even be one currently available. Loan for six months or contracted for two years? If we purchase it will cost us. If we loan, will he be experienced enough?

Lowe will succeed or fail on his footballing decisions, as all managers do.

Who'd be a football manager.

 

[HC Green]

Be fair, Oldage, things were going to plan until we hit that string of defeats. Had our form continued I doubt that we would be thinking about our defence, although it would have needed to be improved upon in order to improve upon our mid-table position.

That has now come to a head and we have the opportunity to improve if we can.
January isn't the best month to get incomings. We shall see.

I am being fair. No way is our defence good enough for league 1 the concerns were there last season. Incidentally we are in the bottom half of the table.

The season is still ongoing, Oldage, too soon to predict how it will pan out. Where we are now bears no resemblance to where we could end up.

We were tied with defenders still under contract from last season. If we stay in Div 1 then they will be gone at season's end when their contract runs out.

With Canavan going, it gives us the opportunity to get a commanding centre half in his place, however whether we will find one willing to come down to Devon, and whether he can play as a three will be the questions to be answered. There may not even be one currently available. Loan for six months or contracted for two years? If we purchase it will cost us. If we loan, will he be experienced enough?

Lowe will succeed or fail on his footballing decisions, as all managers do.

Who'd be a football manager.

Canavan, Wootton and Sawyer were out of contract last summer, they could have been released, Argyle decided to offer them a new contract.

 

[jimsing]

The defence stats last season persuaded Lowe that they should be given a chance in div 1, but Canavan said he was told that his contract was not being renewed at the end of this season, hence his move to Bradford.

I suspect there were one year extensions for the other two as well.

We now have a good chance to improve our defence if we can find a suitable player available.

 

[Devongreenowl]

Be fair, Oldage, things were going to plan until we hit that string of defeats. Had our form continued I doubt that we would be thinking about our defence, although it would have needed to be improved upon in order to improve upon our mid-table position.

That has now come to a head and we have the opportunity to improve if we can.
January isn't the best month to get incomings. We shall see.

I am being fair. No way is our defence good enough for league 1 the concerns were there last season. Incidentally we are in the bottom half of the table.

The season is still ongoing, Oldage, too soon to predict how it will pan out. Where we are now bears no resemblance to where we could end up.

We were tied with defenders still under contract from last season. If we stay in Div 1 then they will be gone at season's end when their contract runs out.

With Canavan going, it gives us the opportunity to get a commanding centre half in his place, however whether we will find one willing to come down to Devon, and whether he can play as a three will be the questions to be answered. There may not even be one currently available. Loan for six months or contracted for two years? If we purchase it will cost us. If we loan, will he be experienced enough?

Lowe will succeed or fail on his footballing decisions, as all managers do.

Who'd be a football manager.

Canavan, Wootton and Sawyer were out of contract last summer, they could have been released, Argyle decided to offer them a new contract.

Correct HC. I think Sawyer was the only one who should have been retained and even then, only out of loyalty as club skipper.

 

[bristolmac]

Maybe the lockdown, and the possibility that players wouldn't want to move around the country and away from families meant last season's defenders were retained as an insurance policy for this season.

 

[Knibbsworth]

Be fair, Oldage, things were going to plan until we hit that string of defeats. Had our form continued I doubt that we would be thinking about our defence, although it would have needed to be improved upon in order to improve upon our mid-table position.

That has now come to a head and we have the opportunity to improve if we can.
January isn't the best month to get incomings. We shall see.

I am being fair. No way is our defence good enough for league 1 the concerns were there last season. Incidentally we are in the bottom half of the table.

The season is still ongoing, Oldage, too soon to predict how it will pan out. Where we are now bears no resemblance to where we could end up.

We were tied with defenders still under contract from last season. If we stay in Div 1 then they will be gone at season's end when their contract runs out.

With Canavan going, it gives us the opportunity to get a commanding centre half in his place, however whether we will find one willing to come down to Devon, and whether he can play as a three will be the questions to be answered. There may not even be one currently available. Loan for six months or contracted for two years? If we purchase it will cost us. If we loan, will he be experienced enough?

Lowe will succeed or fail on his footballing decisions, as all managers do.

Who'd be a football manager.

Canavan, Wootton and Sawyer were out of contract last summer, they could have been released, Argyle decided to offer them a new contract.

Correct HC. I think Sawyer was the only one who should have been retained and even then, only out of loyalty as club skipper.

The difference between us supporters and Ryan Lowe is, he knows what those defenders earn. He knows what his targets expect to be paid to relocate to Plymouth. He has an idea of what is value for money, what is realistic and what isn't, what he can afford and what he can't.

Its easy to say to 'lets get another Elliott Ward', 'I think we should go and get another Sonny Bradley' etc. You are talking about a Premier League level defender and a solid Championship level one. Bradley was Championship level when he was with us, but it took a big spending side like Luton to come and pay him what he deserved.

In January, are we likely to find a Championship level CB going spare on League Two wages? I'd say very unlikely. So we can forget about replicating the Sonny Bradley signing.

I've heard Nathan Baker's name mentioned, coming back from a serious injury. That sounds about our best bet at getting a bit of quality and experience into our back line at short notice. Hopefully he can stay fit and the finances work out our end.

 

[Pogleswoody]

The thing is that (without being too generalised): you have younger players who might generally welcome a loan or might like the 'adventure' of playing elsewhere in the country. They might look forward to socialising with other young local players at a club like Argyle.
You then have older players with families and kids. They would possibly usually consider playing for someone like Argyle maybe without relocating fully? Or maybe as a 'trial' to see how it goes?

These are 'normal' situations. Now isn't 'normal'. If I was a player on a contract I wouldn't be looking to go anywhere at the moment unless it was closer to 'home' and 'family' (like Canavan).

Would you move around now if you were a player, unless you were out of a job? :think:

 

[davie nine]

I would suggest that, like most of us, sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong, that’s all.

Well quite, but this thread was discussing the defensive issues. Those of us who questioned whether the defence had the qualities required for L1 back in the summer were criticised and have been proved to be right. I only wish Lowe had been a bit more astute in putting his defence together for this season. The goals against column tells its own tale.

I think you will find that the same supporters who said that, and I was probably one, also said, at the start of last season, that we would not get back into League 1 if we kept the same centre backs as we had in the relegation season.
I have also said, this season, that we need an experienced centre back NOW, even before Canavan’s departure.
At the end of the day, we both agree; it was just the word ASTUTE that I thought was rather pompous.

 

[oldage]

Be fair, Oldage, things were going to plan until we hit that string of defeats. Had our form continued I doubt that we would be thinking about our defence, although it would have needed to be improved upon in order to improve upon our mid-table position.

That has now come to a head and we have the opportunity to improve if we can.
January isn't the best month to get incomings. We shall see.

I am being fair. No way is our defence good enough for league 1 the concerns were there last season. Incidentally we are in the bottom half of the table.

The season is still ongoing, Oldage, too soon to predict how it will pan out. Where we are now bears no resemblance to where we could end up.

We were tied with defenders still under contract from last season. If we stay in Div 1 then they will be gone at season's end when their contract runs out.

With Canavan going, it gives us the opportunity to get a commanding centre half in his place, however whether we will find one willing to come down to Devon, and whether he can play as a three will be the questions to be answered. There may not even be one currently available. Loan for six months or contracted for two years? If we purchase it will cost us. If we loan, will he be experienced enough?

Lowe will succeed or fail on his footballing decisions, as all managers do.

Who'd be a football manager.

Canavan, Wootton and Sawyer were out of contract last summer, they could have been released, Argyle decided to offer them a new contract.

Correct HC. I think Sawyer was the only one who should have been retained and even then, only out of loyalty as club skipper.

The difference between us supporters and Ryan Lowe is, he knows what those defenders earn. He knows what his targets expect to be paid to relocate to Plymouth. He has an idea of what is value for money, what is realistic and what isn't, what he can afford and what he can't.

Its easy to say to 'lets get another Elliott Ward', 'I think we should go and get another Sonny Bradley' etc. You are talking about a Premier League level defender and a solid Championship level one. Bradley was Championship level when he was with us, but it took a big spending side like Luton to come and pay him what he deserved.

In January, are we likely to find a Championship level CB going spare on League Two wages? I'd say very unlikely. So we can forget about replicating the Sonny Bradley signing.

I've heard Nathan Baker's name mentioned, coming back from a serious injury. That sounds about our best bet at getting a bit of quality and experience into our back line at short notice. Hopefully he can stay fit and the finances work out our end.

Lowe should have realised that our defence would struggle in league 1 without reinforcements before the season began. I don't think it has come as much of a surprise to a lot of supporters.

 

[Devongreenowl]

I would suggest that, like most of us, sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong, that’s all.

Well quite, but this thread was discussing the defensive issues. Those of us who questioned whether the defence had the qualities required for L1 back in the summer were criticised and have been proved to be right. I only wish Lowe had been a bit more astute in putting his defence together for this season. The goals against column tells its own tale.

I think you will find that the same supporters who said that, and I was probably one, also said, at the start of last season, that we would not get back into League 1 if we kept the same centre backs as we had in the relegation season.
I have also said, this season, that we need an experienced centre back NOW, even before Canavan’s departure.
At the end of the day, we both agree; it was just the word ASTUTE that I thought was rather pompous.

I suppose it was a bit tongue in cheek because some of the more ‘astute’ supporters firmly pointed out the low ish goals against column last season as proof that there wasn’t much wrong with the defence. To anybody who was a regular, that was proof that stats can lie. Time and time we had heart in mouth moments with defensive mayhem, which was often rescued by Palmer, who of course isn’t there now! Clearly, you were one of the doubters Davie, so we are on the same page, so to speak. :scarf:

 

[jimsing]

Oldage

(Quote) -

Lowe should have realised that our defence would struggle in league 1 without reinforcements before the season began. I don't think it has come as much of a surprise to a lot of supporters.

(End of quote)

I agree.

Perhaps too much reliance on stats persuaded him to retain the defence, or perhaps through loyalty he gave the current incumbents opportunity to prove themselves in a higher division?

He didn't see them in this division the last time we played in it, did he?

Maybe he is showing some inexperience in the job?

Perhaps he will have someone up his sleeve between now and the end of January,

If he doesn't we could be in big trouble with what we have at the moment.

 

[HC Green]

Oldage

(Quote) -

Lowe should have realised that our defence would struggle in league 1 without reinforcements before the season began. I don't think it has come as much of a surprise to a lot of supporters.

(End of quote)

I agree.

Perhaps too much reliance on stats persuaded him to retain the defence, or perhaps through loyalty he gave the current incumbents opportunity to prove themselves in a higher division?

He didn't see them in this division the last time we played in it, did he?

Maybe he is showing some inexperience in the job?

Perhaps he will have someone up his sleeve between now and the end of January,

If he doesn't we could be in big trouble with what we have at the moment.

We have to hope this person is doing a good job

https://www.pafc.co.uk/siteassets/pdfs/ ... iption.pdf

From the job details Argyle have a Head of Football and a Head of Observation, also involved in recruitment, any ideas who they are as the posts don’t appear on the staff directory, which doesn’t appear to be up to date.

 

[Antipodean]

Give me all the stats you want.

This guy was absolutely awful for us and I’m so glad we’ve robbed Bradford of some money.

Get rid of Wootton and even if we don’t sign replacements I’d say this has been a good transfer window.

Let’s get some good centre backs, build from the back and push on from now.

Yeah let’s just go to the ‘good defender’ shop and buy some decent CB’s with all our free money we have.

Canavan was absolutely turd. We’re much better off without him as things stand, one less poor defender to play

There is absolutely no need for that kind of garbage talk. That is a human being you are talking about. Please desist or find another site packed with fellow misanthropes.

 

[edengreen]

I would suggest that, like most of us, sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong, that’s all.

Well quite, but this thread was discussing the defensive issues. Those of us who questioned whether the defence had the qualities required for L1 back in the summer were criticised and have been proved to be right. I only wish Lowe had been a bit more astute in putting his defence together for this season. The goals against column tells its own tale.

I think you will find that the same supporters who said that, and I was probably one, also said, at the start of last season, that we would not get back into League 1 if we kept the same centre backs as we had in the relegation season.
I have also said, this season, that we need an experienced centre back NOW, even before Canavan’s departure.
At the end of the day, we both agree; it was just the word ASTUTE that I thought was rather pompous.

I suppose it was a bit tongue in cheek because some of the more ‘astute’ supporters firmly pointed out the low ish goals against column last season as proof that there wasn’t much wrong with the defence. To anybody who was a regular, that was proof that stats can lie. Time and time we had heart in mouth moments with defensive mayhem, which was often rescued by Palmer, who of course isn’t there now! Clearly, you were one of the doubters Davie, so we are on the same page, so to speak. :scarf:

Nail on head nothing wrong with Cooper behind a decent defence while he learns but Palmer turned average defenders into a decent defence
No coincidence his Lincoln side are challenging
Cannot understand why he wasn't kept as back up at West Brom can see him as there no 1 in the championship next season as Johnstone is sold
Argyle should have taken notice of the palmer development plan with Cooper and got him out on loan in the conference last year and then league 2 this year

 

[oldage]

Give me all the stats you want.

This guy was absolutely awful for us and I’m so glad we’ve robbed Bradford of some money.

Get rid of Wootton and even if we don’t sign replacements I’d say this has been a good transfer window.

Let’s get some good centre backs, build from the back and push on from now.

Yeah let’s just go to the ‘good defender’ shop and buy some decent CB’s with all our free money we have.

Canavan was absolutely turd. We’re much better off without him as things stand, one less poor defender to play

There is absolutely no need for that kind of garbage talk. That is a human being you are talking about. Please desist or find another site packed with fellow misanthropes.

I agree. Totally disrespectful to a player who had health issues and gave his best to the club. I wish him well at Bradford.