Fans at Home Park (2,000 fans allowed in v MK Dons)

[Graham Clark]

I simply cannot agree that the Club are a ‘tinpot outfit’.

The original terms of conditions for the purchase of season (.ttps://www.pafc.co.uk/supporter-relati ... icket-tcs/) were clear. They stated

“Priority will be given to supporters on a first-come, first-served basis. Season-tickets are only presently being sold to 19/20 season-ticket holders, and those who purchase first will have priority access to games.” AND

“The club appreciates the uncertainty for the Green Army ahead of the upcoming season, which is why we have taken the decision to freeze renewal prices, despite our promotion to a higher level. While the situation is not ideal, offering loyal season-ticket holders priority access to games when the turnstiles open, while providing a streaming alternative should games be played behind-closed-doors, allows the club to forecast our revenues and plan our match-day operations appropriately. As such, we hope that supporters understand we are unable to offer credits for behind-closed-doors fixtures during the upcoming season.” AND

“The Club reserves the right in its absolute discretion to change these Terms and Conditions from time to time. In this eventuality, the Club shall notify you should such changes materially affect the rights of any Holder.”

Last month they changed those terms and conditions (see link below) where supporters could either keep their season ticket (on the terms purchased), buy a new season ticket (on the proviso that the T’s & C’s of doing so fall behind the existing season ticket purchasers), have a partial refund or have a full refund. They informed existing season ticket holders by e-mail or by post for those without e-mail of the options. Remarkably, 97% opted to keep their season ticket and not exercise any of the other options.
https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2020/novemb ... m-the-ceo/

Since then as we know capacity is limited to a maximum of 2,000. The option for 4,000 to attend is only if the City of Plymouth is moved to tier 1 status. That decision is in the balance in the face of derestriction over the Christmas period.

My conclusion is that the Club have acted properly and within their stated terms and conditions. However, the precedent and mechanism for changing those T’s & C’s has been already set with the opportunity to contact all existing season ticket holders by e-mail (and post). I propose that the Club contact existing season ticket holders to ascertain the following,

1. Do you want to retain your season ticket on the original T’s & C’s?
2. Alternatively, are you prepared to offer your seat on a rotational basis to other original season ticket holders.

Following the survey, the Club have a list of people who are willing attend games on a rotational basis. Those seats will have to be allocated on a socially distanced basis and to ease the administrative burden no guarantee can be given for all ‘bubbles’ to be seated together. From unofficial surveys it would appear more than half of the existing season ticket holders are prepared to rotate. Other club’s are managing a rotational basis – on the basis of the above, which I believe to be the fairest and most equitable way forward, I hope the Club, will at least, consider it as a way forward.

 

[Ponty]

You’ve lost me mate.

The club were selling season tickets on the understanding that when games resumed it would be the first who bought them would be the first people allowed back in.

As it’s a season ticket, it’s not just for one game it’s for all the games.

The Club have kept their promise of first come first served.

If i was advertising something for sale this week as first come first served, say Xmas wreaths, I'd serve all the people who came for them.
The week after I'm selling something else which is high demand I'm not going to limit it to the same people who bought the Xmas wreaths. I'd damage my customer base, especially if these people come week in week out. I'd share everything around to try and keep all my regular customers happy.

Hope this helps :thumbup:

 

[demportdave]

Whether or not we are a tin pot club is a matter of opinion.

However, we have a less than efficient ticketing service and many of us who were online at 09.00 on the first day could not purchase their tickets through no fault of their own.

To allocate tickets to those fortunate enough not to experience these problems is somewhat unfair.

I wouldn't go so far as describing Argyle as tin pot but they haven't handled this very well, causing a lot of anger and frustration.

It appears that there was some complacency in that they made an assumption that all of the ST holders could be accommodated when the fans returned and didn't make contingency arrangements if that was not the case.

 

[Ponty]

I simply cannot agree that the Club are a ‘tinpot outfit’.

The original terms of conditions for the purchase of season (.ttps://www.pafc.co.uk/supporter-relati ... icket-tcs/) were clear. They stated

“Priority will be given to supporters on a first-come, first-served basis. Season-tickets are only presently being sold to 19/20 season-ticket holders, and those who purchase first will have priority access to games.” AND

“The club appreciates the uncertainty for the Green Army ahead of the upcoming season, which is why we have taken the decision to freeze renewal prices, despite our promotion to a higher level. While the situation is not ideal, offering loyal season-ticket holders priority access to games when the turnstiles open, while providing a streaming alternative should games be played behind-closed-doors, allows the club to forecast our revenues and plan our match-day operations appropriately. As such, we hope that supporters understand we are unable to offer credits for behind-closed-doors fixtures during the upcoming season.” AND

“The Club reserves the right in its absolute discretion to change these Terms and Conditions from time to time. In this eventuality, the Club shall notify you should such changes materially affect the rights of any Holder.”

Last month they changed those terms and conditions (see link below) where supporters could either keep their season ticket (on the terms purchased), buy a new season ticket (on the proviso that the T’s & C’s of doing so fall behind the existing season ticket purchasers), have a partial refund or have a full refund. They informed existing season ticket holders by e-mail or by post for those without e-mail of the options. Remarkably, 97% opted to keep their season ticket and not exercise any of the other options.
https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2020/novemb ... m-the-ceo/

Since then as we know capacity is limited to a maximum of 2,000. The option for 4,000 to attend is only if the City of Plymouth is moved to tier 1 status. That decision is in the balance in the face of derestriction over the Christmas period.

My conclusion is that the Club have acted properly and within their stated terms and conditions. However, the precedent and mechanism for changing those T’s & C’s has been already set with the opportunity to contact all existing season ticket holders by e-mail (and post). I propose that the Club contact existing season ticket holders to ascertain the following,

1. Do you want to retain your season ticket on the original T’s & C’s?
2. Alternatively, are you prepared to offer your seat on a rotational basis to other original season ticket holders.

Following the survey, the Club have a list of people who are willing attend games on a rotational basis. Those seats will have to be allocated on a socially distanced basis and to ease the administrative burden no guarantee can be given for all ‘bubbles’ to be seated together. From unofficial surveys it would appear more than half of the existing season ticket holders are prepared to rotate. Other club’s are managing a rotational basis – on the basis of the above, which I believe to be the fairest and most equitable way forward, I hope the Club, will at least, consider it as a way forward.

"The Club reserves the right in its absolute discretion to change these Terms and Conditions from time to time."

There we go.

When it became clear it was going to be limited to 2000 or 1800 odd this clause should have been implemented to include all season ticket holders. I'm my opinion of course.

 

[Daz]

You’ve lost me mate.

The club were selling season tickets on the understanding that when games resumed it would be the first who bought them would be the first people allowed back in.

As it’s a season ticket, it’s not just for one game it’s for all the games.

The Club have kept their promise of first come first served.

If i was advertising something for sale this week as first come first served, say Xmas wreaths, I'd serve all the people who came for them.
The week after I'm selling something else which is high demand I'm not going to limit it to the same people who bought the Xmas wreaths. I'd damage my customer base, especially if these people come week in week out. I'd share everything around to try and keep all my regular customers happy.

Hope this helps :thumbup:

The club aren't selling something else though and that is the point. If you sold your Xmas wreaths on the basis that the first 200 to buy would be first in line for your wreaths next year, you would honour it.

If it was a cup game coming up that isn't part of the season ticket that would be something else.

As i mentioned way back, i think the club should offer the refunds again.

 

[Devongreenowl]

Well obviously I don’t mean Argyle ARE a tin pot outfit, but this episode makes them look like one. At a time when they need the good will of their most loyal supporters, all the brains and business acumen within the club couldn’t foresee the potential divisive outcome of this stupid policy. I would be interested to know how many of the other clubs in the Premier League or EFL have been unwise enough to operate a similar scheme. Not many if any I would imagine. That’s why it makes Argyle look tin pot. The longer they let it drag on without addressing it in some way, the more tin pot they look.

 

[metroace]

I understand "those who purchase first will have priority access to games" that when the limit is 1808, that the first 1808 get in.

When it is raised to 2000, the 1808 get in plus other the next in line to take it up to 2000.

When it is raised to 4000, the previous 2000 get in pus the next 2000 in line.

This is what PRIORITY access means as I see it. I understand it is not how others see it but we can't agree on everything.

A previous poster suggested that the club make use of the get out clause and contact the original 1808 and ask who would be willing to rotate their privilege and that may be the best way forward.

 

[HC Green]

The main issues that people could feel aggrieved at is that they could say that system for buying tickets wasn’t fair and using a current phrase not a level playing field.
Some people had problems buying on line and people who had no option but to buy over the phone were at a major disadvantage.

 

[Devongreenowl]

It’s a public relations disaster and the club really has to do something about it. A good start would be a hands up style apology, we got it wrong. Followed by a change of policy and appeal to the 1800 to understand the clubs dilemma and offer them an immediate refund if they aren’t happy. I would predict hardly any would take up the offer, just as I predict that hardly any true supporters would contemplate taking their club to the small claims court. Waste of time and money, because it would be dismissed out of hand if the club had already offered them a full refund.

Sounds to me like Hallett himself needs to put his hand on the tiller here and steer the good ship on to the morally correct course.

 

[yashin]

The whole crux of the matter is when people purchased season tickets we all thought the crowd limit would be 4000 but unfortuately this has been reduced so we have to grin and bear it the club stated what their course of action was going to be quite fairly.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

While the Pasoti poll on this thread is not scientific it does have 598 (and counting) of votes which is 12% of the reported 5,000 season ticket holders. 70% of those who voted would like a rotation system.

The club have gone very quiet on this issue despite it being a hot topic amongst fans.

There's also no update on the test event against Ipswich, which if it was successful another 192 fans would be allowed into Home Park.

 

[Balham Green]

While the Pasoti poll on this thread is not scientific it does have 598 (and counting) of votes which is 12% of the reported 5,000 season ticket holders. 70% of those who voted would like a rotation system.

The club have gone very quiet on this issue despite it being a hot topic amongst fans.

There's also no update on the test event against Ipswich, which if it was successful another 192 fans would be allowed into Home Park.

How do we know if it was successful? Do we have to wait to see if anybody was infected?! :shocked:

 

[justanotherfan]

While the Pasoti poll on this thread is not scientific it does have 598 (and counting) of votes which is 12% of the reported 5,000 season ticket holders. 70% of those who voted would like a rotation system.

The club have gone very quiet on this issue despite it being a hot topic amongst fans.

There's also no update on the test event against Ipswich, which if it was successful another 192 fans would be allowed into Home Park.

How many of those that have voted are actual season ticket holders and how many of those are in the first 2000. The figures show that roughly 420 out of approximately 5000 have voted for a rotation system. I have no axe to grind on this subject and will go with whatever system the club maintain or adopt.

 

[Devongreenowl]

While the Pasoti poll on this thread is not scientific it does have 598 (and counting) of votes which is 12% of the reported 5,000 season ticket holders. 70% of those who voted would like a rotation system.

The club have gone very quiet on this issue despite it being a hot topic amongst fans.

There's also no update on the test event against Ipswich, which if it was successful another 192 fans would be allowed into Home Park.

How many of those that have voted are actual season ticket holders and how many of those are in the first 2000. The figures show that roughly 420 out of approximately 5000 have voted for a rotation system. I have no axe to grind on this subject and will go with whatever system the club maintain or adopt.

Interesting use of statistics. I will go for 70% of those who voted.

 

[PL2 3DQ]

While the Pasoti poll on this thread is not scientific it does have 598 (and counting) of votes which is 12% of the reported 5,000 season ticket holders. 70% of those who voted would like a rotation system.

The club have gone very quiet on this issue despite it being a hot topic amongst fans.

There's also no update on the test event against Ipswich, which if it was successful another 192 fans would be allowed into Home Park.

How many of those that have voted are actual season ticket holders and how many of those are in the first 2000. The figures show that roughly 420 out of approximately 5000 have voted for a rotation system. I have no axe to grind on this subject and will go with whatever system the club maintain or adopt.

You missed the 'is not scientific' bit.