Home Park Redevelopment

[GreenAllOver]

Another thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that if this goes ahead as planned, Exeter's Sandy Park will have a larger capacity as they intend to increase to 20,600 over the next few years. How embarrassing would that be.
They would be able to bid for bigger events and with the Airport just across the Motorway for easy access. Another case of Plymouth's loss is Exeter's gain.
When this goes ahead, it has to be the best in Devon and Cornwall or we risk losing out to them up the road.
I wonder if the Greeks will sell up and move in with the egg chasers?

 

[BadBoy]

Another thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that if this goes ahead as planned, Exeter's Sandy Park will have a larger capacity as they intend to increase to 20,600 over the next few years. How embarrassing would that be.
They would be able to bid for bigger events and with the Airport just across the Motorway for easy access. Another case of Plymouth's loss is Exeter's gain.
When this goes ahead, it has to be the best in Devon and Cornwall or we risk losing out to them up the road.
I wonder if the Greeks will sell up and move in with the egg chasers?

Not really relevant is it, if we have 20k and Chiefs have 20k the same transport issues remain. Can't see City wanting to lose their 3k of fans in a 20k stadium either. Also I assume the 20k rugby stadium will have a considerable amount of terracing.

 

[GreenSam]

Another thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that if this goes ahead as planned, Exeter's Sandy Park will have a larger capacity as they intend to increase to 20,600 over the next few years. How embarrassing would that be.
They would be able to bid for bigger events and with the Airport just across the Motorway for easy access. Another case of Plymouth's loss is Exeter's gain.
When this goes ahead, it has to be the best in Devon and Cornwall or we risk losing out to them up the road.
I wonder if the Greeks will sell up and move in with the egg chasers?

I hope this doesn't come across as scaremongering, but the chance that Exeter could have a bigger capacity than us isn't an entirely insignificant one to consider. Does anyone with a bit more knowledge of Exeter's situation know what the chances of this are?

 

[esmer]

And there's the crux "Several years at the top end of the championship" your advocating someone else spends an extra couple of million on the off chance we may at some point do something we have never been close to doing before. No one would be against provision for expansion and as posted earlier I would imagine some bright spark could sort the lyndehurst if necessary, I just want it built. The fact someone else is paying makes it an even nicer proposition. We must be the only fanbase in the country that would oppose this sort of opportunity.

Some of us see it as realistic ambition not an "off chance". Why shouldn't a city our size boast a good Championship team, what so far fetched about that?
Also, it mustn't be forgotten that nobody is giving us anything. Building the stand is payment for the development site

A site we don't own or have you forgotten our recent past, as for realistic ambition, given the money awash in the Prem and parachute payments etc within five years of now a struggling championship side will be about the height of our ambition that's realism not pie in the sky ambition.

The stand is payment for PCC relaxing their covenant and giving planning permission for the development. Also more than 50% of the land to be developed is now owned by PCC including the access.

How many fans do you think share your ambition for the club?

 

[esmer]

Another thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that if this goes ahead as planned, Exeter's Sandy Park will have a larger capacity as they intend to increase to 20,600 over the next few years. How embarrassing would that be.
They would be able to bid for bigger events and with the Airport just across the Motorway for easy access. Another case of Plymouth's loss is Exeter's gain.
When this goes ahead, it has to be the best in Devon and Cornwall or we risk losing out to them up the road.
I wonder if the Greeks will sell up and move in with the egg chasers?

I have lived in the Exeter are for a long time and have far less angst to all things Exeter than most on this site but even I find it hard to stomach the prospect that we will have a smaller stadium than a bunch of Exeter Egg Chasers.

The Chiefs have asked Exeter City to share Sandy Park, to date they have declined. It's highly unlikely they will turn down a 20,000 capacity stadium in a prime position so it is highly likely Exeter City will within the near future be playing in a bigger ground than us. If they can boost their attendances up towards the level of the rugby club as many think likely they will genuinely be the largest football club in Devon. No one would have said 10 years ago that Exeter would now be a good Premiership rugby team playing in front of 9-10,000 people, who's to say that Exeter City won't be a decent Championship team within 10 years. If they are then fair play to them but we will be struggling to catch them up in a woefully undersized stadium.

 

[RWW]

A couple points to ponder..

1. While reading through the previous posts I actually expected someone to type "look how far we have come".....remember that phrase from our time in the Championship?

2. Don't think for one minute that JB won't be making a profit from this. He may be investing 10 million (or whatever) in the new grandstand but he will get a good return on it - as he should.

An 18 000 facility does not satisfy our potential demand.

We could get 15 000 at the bottom of league 2 on Saturday...how on earch can 18 000 be good enough....

 

[Quintrell Green]

Another thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that if this goes ahead as planned, Exeter's Sandy Park will have a larger capacity as they intend to increase to 20,600 over the next few years. How embarrassing would that be.
They would be able to bid for bigger events and with the Airport just across the Motorway for easy access. Another case of Plymouth's loss is Exeter's gain.
When this goes ahead, it has to be the best in Devon and Cornwall or we risk losing out to them up the road.
I wonder if the Greeks will sell up and move in with the egg chasers?

I hope this doesn't come across as scaremongering, but the chance that Exeter could have a bigger capacity than us isn't an entirely insignificant one to consider. Does anyone with a bit more knowledge of Exeter's situation know what the chances of this are?

I should not worry about it. When the RFU County Rugby Championships had some national standing. Redruth Rugby Club's ground had a registered licensed capacity of circa 18,000, with a main stand taking circa 1,500. This was given after the Bradford disaster, when grounds were licensed. It used temporary stands and enjoyed good banked terracing. After Twickenham and Leicester Tigers' ground it was at that time the 3rd largest rugby ground in England. Nothing stands still, and this is a meaningless statistic now. The same could happen with Exeter Chiefs. Good luck to them. They are creating an empire at Sandy Park, but a relegation and loss of RFU Premier League sponsorship could make life difficult for them and a half empty stadium.

 

[crownhill pilgrim]

Also I believe there were one two others who were bidding for the club.

Ah yes, Heaney was one. :lol:

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from being a JB Cheerleader, but he was by FAR the only bidder of any substance.

 

[GreenSam]

Also I believe there were one two others who were bidding for the club.

Ah yes, Heaney was one. :lol:

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from being a JB Cheerleader, but he was by FAR the only bidder of any substance.

Exactly. It was JB or Phoenix.

 

[IJN]

Richard
Please see the attached record of the Council decision relating to Plymouth Argyle, the terms of the lease on the stadium and the terms of the acquisition of the Higher Home Park land

http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/modgov?modgo ... Id%3D49807

You will see that your statement is totally inaccurate as the extract below from the attached Council minute demonstrates

"An an offer received from the administrator’s preferred purchasers of Plymouth Argyle Football Company Limited, to sell Home Park stadium to the Council, and on the terms following which, the Council would lease the ground back to the club;
indicating that the prospective purchasers also wished to amend the covenants the Council had on adjoining land at Higher Home Park (currently owned by the football club) to align them to the Area Action Plan uses to enable the land to be used to support the future development of the football club. In addition the Council was asked to remove an option the Council had to purchase part of Higher Home Park. The value of that covenant amendment and loss of option is £425,000"

Since the acquisition of the HHP land by what was then Green Pilgrim (now PAFC Lt.) the land has been purchased by James Brent / Richard Holliday and another. The £465,000, which was the full market value of the land has now been paid separately to PAFC Ltd.

You will also know that payment cannot be made to obtain a planning permission, not least when some of the landownership is publicly owned. Any payments made by through a s106 agreement have to 'fairly and reasonably relate' to the planning requirements of the proposal.

I have said all along that the City Council hold the key to the development. As you have correctly pointed out there will have to be an additional rationalisation of land ownership between PCC and Akkeron but that is totally separate from any planning considerations as any planning application will be determined on the planning merits of the proposal in accordance with PCC adopted planning policy.

That really worries me!

Richard, if you can not stick to the facts, which it seems you can't, no one will give anything you say in future any credence.

Whilst it's admirable you have stood up above the parapet, and you are 'doing' rather than just 'talking' you need to tell people the FACTS and not what you want people to believe.

 

[esmer]

Richard
Please see the attached record of the Council decision relating to Plymouth Argyle, the terms of the lease on the stadium and the terms of the acquisition of the Higher Home Park land

http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/modgov?modgo ... Id%3D49807

You will see that your statement is totally inaccurate as the extract below from the attached Council minute demonstrates

"An an offer received from the administrator’s preferred purchasers of Plymouth Argyle Football Company Limited, to sell Home Park stadium to the Council, and on the terms following which, the Council would lease the ground back to the club;
indicating that the prospective purchasers also wished to amend the covenants the Council had on adjoining land at Higher Home Park (currently owned by the football club) to align them to the Area Action Plan uses to enable the land to be used to support the future development of the football club. In addition the Council was asked to remove an option the Council had to purchase part of Higher Home Park. The value of that covenant amendment and loss of option is £425,000"

Since the acquisition of the HHP land by what was then Green Pilgrim (now PAFC Lt.) the land has been purchased by James Brent / Richard Holliday and another. The £465,000, which was the full market value of the land has now been paid separately to PAFC Ltd.

You will also know that payment cannot be made to obtain a planning permission, not least when some of the landownership is publicly owned. Any payments made by through a s106 agreement have to 'fairly and reasonably relate' to the planning requirements of the proposal.

I have said all along that the City Council hold the key to the development. As you have correctly pointed out there will have to be an additional rationalisation of land ownership between PCC and Akkeron but that is totally separate from any planning considerations as any planning application will be determined on the planning merits of the proposal in accordance with PCC adopted planning policy.

I was over simplifying things but the principle is that due to various issues the development cannot go ahead without PCC's cooperation (perhaps the most pertinent being that 50% of the proposed development will, if it goes ahead, take place on what is now PCC owned land) and if Mrs Pengelley, among others, is to be believed that cooperation will not be forthcoming without the new stand being built. Therefore the new stand is effectively payment for being allowed to carry out the development.

I have little experience in commercial land values but 465,000 is less than 1% of the published end value of the development that seems incredibly low.

 

[with menace]

Also I believe there were one two others who were bidding for the club.

Ah yes, Heaney was one. :lol:

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from being a JB Cheerleader, but he was by FAR the only bidder of any substance.

And seriously what would have been different? Zero investment in the team, a breath away from dropping out the league and our ground been carved up for property development. Don't get me wrong I despise Heaney and his ilk so pease tell me why everyone seems to be like sycophantic fawning schoolgirls about Brent doing the same ?

 

[esmer]

Richard
Please see the attached record of the Council decision relating to Plymouth Argyle, the terms of the lease on the stadium and the terms of the acquisition of the Higher Home Park land

http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/modgov?modgo ... Id%3D49807

You will see that your statement is totally inaccurate as the extract below from the attached Council minute demonstrates

"An an offer received from the administrator’s preferred purchasers of Plymouth Argyle Football Company Limited, to sell Home Park stadium to the Council, and on the terms following which, the Council would lease the ground back to the club;
indicating that the prospective purchasers also wished to amend the covenants the Council had on adjoining land at Higher Home Park (currently owned by the football club) to align them to the Area Action Plan uses to enable the land to be used to support the future development of the football club. In addition the Council was asked to remove an option the Council had to purchase part of Higher Home Park. The value of that covenant amendment and loss of option is £425,000"

Since the acquisition of the HHP land by what was then Green Pilgrim (now PAFC Lt.) the land has been purchased by James Brent / Richard Holliday and another. The £465,000, which was the full market value of the land has now been paid separately to PAFC Ltd.

You will also know that payment cannot be made to obtain a planning permission, not least when some of the landownership is publicly owned. Any payments made by through a s106 agreement have to 'fairly and reasonably relate' to the planning requirements of the proposal.

I have said all along that the City Council hold the key to the development. As you have correctly pointed out there will have to be an additional rationalisation of land ownership between PCC and Akkeron but that is totally separate from any planning considerations as any planning application will be determined on the planning merits of the proposal in accordance with PCC adopted planning policy.

That really worries me!

Richard, if you can not stick to the facts, which it seems you can't, no one will give anything you say in future any credence.

Whilst it's admirable you have stood up above the parapet, and you are 'doing' rather than just 'talking' you need to tell people the FACTS and not what you want people to believe.

I think it's the facts which worry you, Ian.

 

[IJN]

No mate it's not, I've said many time I'd love a bigger stand.

But Graham is the voice of reason, your is the voice of the AFT.

 

[cheshiregreen]

Richard
Please see the attached record of the Council decision relating to Plymouth Argyle, the terms of the lease on the stadium and the terms of the acquisition of the Higher Home Park land

http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/modgov?modgo ... Id%3D49807

You will see that your statement is totally inaccurate as the extract below from the attached Council minute demonstrates

"An an offer received from the administrator’s preferred purchasers of Plymouth Argyle Football Company Limited, to sell Home Park stadium to the Council, and on the terms following which, the Council would lease the ground back to the club;
indicating that the prospective purchasers also wished to amend the covenants the Council had on adjoining land at Higher Home Park (currently owned by the football club) to align them to the Area Action Plan uses to enable the land to be used to support the future development of the football club. In addition the Council was asked to remove an option the Council had to purchase part of Higher Home Park. The value of that covenant amendment and loss of option is £425,000"

Since the acquisition of the HHP land by what was then Green Pilgrim (now PAFC Lt.) the land has been purchased by James Brent / Richard Holliday and another. The £465,000, which was the full market value of the land has now been paid separately to PAFC Ltd.

You will also know that payment cannot be made to obtain a planning permission, not least when some of the landownership is publicly owned. Any payments made by through a s106 agreement have to 'fairly and reasonably relate' to the planning requirements of the proposal.

I have said all along that the City Council hold the key to the development. As you have correctly pointed out there will have to be an additional rationalisation of land ownership between PCC and Akkeron but that is totally separate from any planning considerations as any planning application will be determined on the planning merits of the proposal in accordance with PCC adopted planning policy.

Wonder who "another" is and why that person has remained anonymous? :think: