Probably worth noting that Cooper's first league game as the established No.1 was his full league debut which is unusual for a young keeper
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Lowes biggest mistake this season. (Keeper)
- Thread starter plymouthboyuk
- Start date
greenpilled":178stwz0 said:
Exactly. Not to mention rash challenges in the penalty area and centre halfs unable to win headers. So a more experienced keeper would suddenly transform Canavan would it? Of course not. Watts gets away with very little criticism when we are talking about inexperience at the back. Perhaps we should start with replacing him instead. He has been at fault for more goals than Cooper. I notice when he is one on one with a player in a wide position he hardly ever stops the cross.
There will always be those criticising the keeper when goals are being conceded.
The critics have been challenged to point out the howlers and, so far, noone has provided a list.
I can recall one in the Rochdale game when he failed to collect the ball when diving at the forward’s feet. The 3 Oxford goals were all avoidable but, surely, Cooper was blameless.
I can concede that his command of the penalty area will improve with first team experience and there is only one way that he will gain that experience.
I would suggest that he could have gained some of that experience 2 years ago when, even then, he was a better option than the keeper we had for most of that season.
Cooper is gaining more first team experience than that keeper has since that time.
He is probably unfortunate because he is being compared with the excellent loan keeper that we had last season.
The critics have been challenged to point out the howlers and, so far, noone has provided a list.
I can recall one in the Rochdale game when he failed to collect the ball when diving at the forward’s feet. The 3 Oxford goals were all avoidable but, surely, Cooper was blameless.
I can concede that his command of the penalty area will improve with first team experience and there is only one way that he will gain that experience.
I would suggest that he could have gained some of that experience 2 years ago when, even then, he was a better option than the keeper we had for most of that season.
Cooper is gaining more first team experience than that keeper has since that time.
He is probably unfortunate because he is being compared with the excellent loan keeper that we had last season.
Balham_Green":13xxf7ib said:
Perhaps that’s what happens when you play a centre back as a wide defender. He’s not a full back but is essentially being asked to play as one much of the time.
On reflection, i tend to agree with many of your opinions about players, BG.Balham_Green":bjlnlmte said:
I think that it’s your confrontational nature that frustrates people on Pasoti.
With regard to Cooper, it’s not so much that he’s making howlers week after week, it’s more that quite a few goals you think he could have done better. To plunge him straight into a promoted side when he had previously not made any league appearances as far as I’m aware, was a big mistake and the defence as a unit, which of course includes Cooper, are not covering themselves in glory.
If the season ends in relegation, Cooper and certainly Wootton will be seen as defining errors by Ryan Lowe. At best, Cooper should have spent at least a season playing somewhere like Torquay. People saying he was a future premiership keeper at the beginning of the season, are looking over optimistic shall we say. Palmer was a far superior keeper.
If the season ends in relegation, Cooper and certainly Wootton will be seen as defining errors by Ryan Lowe. At best, Cooper should have spent at least a season playing somewhere like Torquay. People saying he was a future premiership keeper at the beginning of the season, are looking over optimistic shall we say. Palmer was a far superior keeper.
This is Cooper's first season playing first team football. He is still a work in progress.
He is not the finished article and comparing him with Palmer is ridiculously unfair.
I do agree that he should have gone out on loan for a season but who would want a 18/19 year old as first team goalkeeper? Anyway, it may have aroused interest from bigger clubs had he been hugely successful.
Lowe has decided that Cooper will learn his trade with the first team and has placed him as no1 goalkeeper, with a decent 2nd choice, should Cooper get injured.
The lad is still learning but he has done well in my books, he's not a Shilton or a Banks but he could develop into something if he is given the chance.
He is our No1 goalkeeper - Give him some slack, he hasn't had a horrendous match, yet. His confidence isn't shot, just yet. He's still learning. We have to live with that, so there's no point in comparing him with anyone else who has greater experience. He's doing his best and I've seen experienced goalkeepers do worse than him playing for us (Pat Dunne comes to mind - ex Man Utd first team goalkeeper - good goalkeeper but always liable to drop a clanger now and then)
Goalkeepers generally develop later than outfield players and don't get to their prime until their thirties, just think what he could develop into.
He is not the finished article and comparing him with Palmer is ridiculously unfair.
I do agree that he should have gone out on loan for a season but who would want a 18/19 year old as first team goalkeeper? Anyway, it may have aroused interest from bigger clubs had he been hugely successful.
Lowe has decided that Cooper will learn his trade with the first team and has placed him as no1 goalkeeper, with a decent 2nd choice, should Cooper get injured.
The lad is still learning but he has done well in my books, he's not a Shilton or a Banks but he could develop into something if he is given the chance.
He is our No1 goalkeeper - Give him some slack, he hasn't had a horrendous match, yet. His confidence isn't shot, just yet. He's still learning. We have to live with that, so there's no point in comparing him with anyone else who has greater experience. He's doing his best and I've seen experienced goalkeepers do worse than him playing for us (Pat Dunne comes to mind - ex Man Utd first team goalkeeper - good goalkeeper but always liable to drop a clanger now and then)
Goalkeepers generally develop later than outfield players and don't get to their prime until their thirties, just think what he could develop into.
jimsing":1jcoaguy said:
Why is it unfair? Before joining us Palmer had only made a few appearances for Kidderminster.
He wasn't more experienced he was just better.
jimsing":w5jrfn8j said:
But don’t you see the folly of having a worse keeper in L1 than L2? Who would have wanted him on loan? What are you saying - nobody would, so no choice but to put him in the first team at this supposedly upwardly mobile club? Nobody wants to crucify him and of course he was hardly likely to refuse to play. No, the fault lies with Ryan Lowe and perhaps Rhys Willmott if he convinced everybody he was ready. Ryan Lowe should sign another keeper in January.
WoodsyGreen":14mr6ezr said:
He's 3 years older than Cooper (so when he joined, 2 years older than Cooper is now). Experience isn't just about how many games he's played but also years worth of extra work, day in day out, on the training ground.
But results over the last ten games would have been no different with Palmer in goal. In fact in the first quarter of last season - even against League 2 opposition - we were shipping too many goals. 4-0 v Exeter, 3-1 v Northampton, a 2-0 home defeat to Cheltenham and 2-2 draws with Crawley, Scunthorpe, Oldham and Salford.
After the Exeter defeat, which left us 10th in the league, Lowe started using Josh Grant in central midfield. This effectively gave us an extra defender sitting in front of the back 3 and we tightened up a lot from that point on. A similar tactical tweak could be worth a go right now, especially in away games.
I wonder whether Opoku or Watts might be able to do a similar job to Grant last season?
Devongreenowl":27xtivqm said:
The point is that Cooper needs to develop his game, and he isn't going to do that sat on the bench, like last season. You must then appreciate that he is not the finished article but will be adequate for our needs. If we had a decent back three we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?
You forget, we have another goalkeeper, when/if Cooper gets injured. We don 't need another.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's that there aren't any examples where Cooper was at fault this season, I think it's that people rightly can't be bothered to trawl back through 20 highlight videos making a note of which goals we should cite on a Pasoti thread as being the fault of our rookie keeper.
Personally, I've seen countless examples throughout the season where all I've seen is a keeper rooted to the spot, usually on his goal line, after the ball has hit the net. Often it's after he's failed to collect a cross and he's just stood there throwing his arms up in the air like a child who's been told to turn the Playstation off. And no, I'm not going to provide specific examples but that's more of a sign that I simply can't be arsed to find them all!
To those who say he's destined for the top, I honestly can't see it and maybe that negates much of what I've said above - I'm not claiming to know everything about goalkeeping but, like Cobi said earlier in the thread, Cooper just doesn't seem to make the showcase saves - I don't remember seeing many saves where I've thought "Blimey, how did he get to that?" - quite often, for me, it's the complete opposite. He doesn't make stinking mistakes often; he just doesn't make the saves that some may think he could have done better with.
To conclude, I agree with the OP - not signing Palmer has cost us dearly this season, and I've been saying the same things for a good few months now. Here's hoping RL has a look at the loan market in January - if Luke's not the answer as a backup, when we clearly need a change of personnel in goal, then why on earth did we sign him? If it's purely as a mentor, well it's not working.
Personally, I've seen countless examples throughout the season where all I've seen is a keeper rooted to the spot, usually on his goal line, after the ball has hit the net. Often it's after he's failed to collect a cross and he's just stood there throwing his arms up in the air like a child who's been told to turn the Playstation off. And no, I'm not going to provide specific examples but that's more of a sign that I simply can't be arsed to find them all!
To those who say he's destined for the top, I honestly can't see it and maybe that negates much of what I've said above - I'm not claiming to know everything about goalkeeping but, like Cobi said earlier in the thread, Cooper just doesn't seem to make the showcase saves - I don't remember seeing many saves where I've thought "Blimey, how did he get to that?" - quite often, for me, it's the complete opposite. He doesn't make stinking mistakes often; he just doesn't make the saves that some may think he could have done better with.
To conclude, I agree with the OP - not signing Palmer has cost us dearly this season, and I've been saying the same things for a good few months now. Here's hoping RL has a look at the loan market in January - if Luke's not the answer as a backup, when we clearly need a change of personnel in goal, then why on earth did we sign him? If it's purely as a mentor, well it's not working.
